Sporterized Mauser

[Bucksnort1]

My father was a 2nd Lt. in the Army of occupation in Heidelberg, Germany from 1946 to 1949. During this time, he, as he said, liberated the sporterized 8X57 Mauser you see in the photograph. As a young boy, pre-teen and a teenager, I loved this rifle dearly. Over the years, I think I wore off some of the bluing by just thinking about the rifle. Just before Dad died, I inherited the rifle complete with the Hensoldt, single post, quick mount, fixed 4X scope. The sling you see is not the original. I removed the original because it is leather and is showing age. I didn't want to carry the rifle by the sling and have it break.

I could kick myself for not asking Dad for more information on the rifle and just how he got it, but he always said, "I liberated it", which I believe means he got it for nothing. What I don't know is if he got it as a military rifle then had it sporterized or if it was sporterized when he got it. I shot my first white tail deer with it.

Any comments about the rifle? I have the original leather case for the scope.

I have attached the photo.

 

[44 AMP]

there is no picture, or link

 

[Scorch]

Don't know about your particular rifle, but many civilian rifles were taken from impoundment sites by US military personnel. At the end of WW2,the Allies occupied Germany and its territories. One of the things they did was confiscate all firearms from the populace. These were often just piled up in a warehouse, and since there were no plans for returning them to civilians at any foreseeable time, they were bundled up and disappeared towards the USA. Many very valuable old production rifles and handcrafted rifles, as well as the more common sporterized to various degrees military rifles, became the property of US servicemen simply for the taking.

A little bit of trivia: this is why you often see German sporting rifles of that period with claw mounts but no scopes. The rifles were banned, but not the expensive telescopic sights, so owners would remove them before turning in the rifles.

German civilians were again allowed to own sporting firearms in the late 1950s IIRC.

 

[emcon5]

You will need to post better photos if you want any meaningful information.

Take pics of any markings, both on the rifle and on the scope.

 

[James K]

After WWII, American GI's in Germany could buy rifles through their exchanges for very low prices and could arrange to have military types sporterized by German gunsmiths or for sporter rifles to be customized. With Germany completely flattened, economically as well as literally, the American dollar was king and those with dollars could get about anything they wanted.

During the war, "liberated" could mean captured in battle, but later it could also mean simply stolen, taken from civilians with or without legal authority. And valuables were often sold or traded by Germans for the necessities of life. Gold watches were traded for a carton of C rations; jeweled bracelets for cigarettes. Other types of exchange can be assumed without going into detail.

Civilian arms were confiscated, but GI's "liberated" cameras, jewelry, gold, watches, and about anything that struck their fancy, with no legal right at all. It was prohibited, but as victors in a defeated country, the rules were not rigidly enforced to say the least.

Jim

 

[Jimro]

Based on the picture there is no way to tell whether the rifle was sported in Germany or the US.

But, if I had to guess, Germany. The "Schnabel" forend didn't seem to be particularly popular in the postwar era (forend exotic wood tips with white spacers seem to be more common), the barrel band sling attachment was also more common in European sporters, it's not something I'd see a GI having done to a bring back. And lastly, the barrel looks like is is a turned down Gew98 barrel, it seems too thick to be from a K98 profile. None of this is "smoking gun" proof of where the work was done, but I'd guess it's a pre-WWII sporter based on a Gew98. If an American were sporting something that extensively, it would likely have included a caliber change away from 8x57.

Without better pictures that include markings, that's just my SWAG on it.

Jimro

 

[Bucksnort1]

Jimro,

Good information. Thanks. The barrel is tapered in two steps. In other words, it is thicker in front of the receiver then tapers with two steps to a smaller diameter at the muzzle. There are small German eagles with swastikas below the eagles at various locations. There may have been some markings on the top of the front and rear of the receiver where the scope mounts are but if there were, they were obliterated by someone using a metal punch to make tiny punch marks all over the front and rear receiver. I don't know if it was done to help secure the scope mounts or to obliterate markings. Pardon me if I'm using incorrect terminology. All serial numbers match.

Over the years, I was always amazed that the scope could be removed, stored then remounted for each hunting season and still be zeroed. In the movie Schindler's List, there is a scene where a German concentration camp commander uses a similar rifle to shoot a prisoner. I have seen only one other rifle that resembles this rifle and that rifle had neither the stepped barrel nor the scope but did have the claw mounts.

 

[Savage99]

Fine old rifle. Here is your picture of it.

You may want to check if your old sporter is a J bore or an S bore?

They changed the bullet diameter back then. The older rifles J bore has a .318" bullet diameter and the S bore is .323"!

"Owners of 8x57 I caliber rifles should NOT try to use 8x57 JS ammunition on them, as this last round sports a wider bullet diameter if compared to the earlier."

https://www.all4shooters.com/en/Shooting/ammunition/8x57JS-hunting

 

[Jimro]

The barrel is tapered in two steps. In other words, it is thicker in front of the receiver then tapers with two steps to a smaller diameter at the muzzle. There are small German eagles with swastikas below the eagles at various locations.

Ok, so a two step barrel is likely to be an un-tapered K98 barrel with the military sights removed and sporter sights instealled. Maybe my eyes are just getting old but it looked like I only saw one taper in the picture.

The Eagle with Swastika means K98 rifle as well. Unfortunately the manufacturing codes are under the front scope base. This means you have in all likelihood a .323" bore and are safe to fire all 8x57 ammunition.

This increases the odds that the sporterizing was done in the US by someone who wanted to make a classic German style sporting rifle (it looks an awful like like a classic Mauser Model C). It is still possible that it was done in Germany, but there is no way to be sure.

Any way you cut it, it is a real nice piece of history though, and I hope you get to pass it on to your children.

Just out of curiousity, can you get a picture of the Eagle and Swastica stamps? Wings turned down would put the rifle around 1937, wings straight out would be 1938 and after.

Jimro

 

[Bucksnort1]

Jimro,

The eagles have wings outstretched.

When I got the rifle, I also got three boxes of 8X57 soft point cartridges. I don't know manufacturer because tossed those boxes and switched to plastic but they are probably Remington. My father bought these rounds in the early 60s for hunting so can we assume they are .323"?

I'm about 98 percent sure this rifle was sporterized in Germany. My father hunted with a full colonel and some other blokes. Both of them got rifles at the same time, around 1946 or 47. Dad got the one in the photo and another with a Mannlicher style stock also in 8X57. Last September, I met with the colonel's son and also my former brother-in-law for a 50 year reunion. I asked him about the rifles. He said they were sporterized in Germany.

There are two tapers. I've attached another photo. Perhaps you can see the taper a few inches below the muzzle. I apologize for photo quality. I will see if I can get a photo of the eagles and swastikas.

 

[emcon5]

What are the markings on the scope?

 

[Savage99]

Slug the bore to confirm the correct bullet diameter.

 

[Jimro]

Pogybait,

If your dad was stationed post war in Germany odds are it was sported there by a German gunsmith. It's a good looking rifle for sure, definitely in the classic German style.

After the war Jagermeisters were about the only German citizens to retain hunting rifles. The hunting was supposed to be quite good in the 46-48 time frame as the war had taken off a lot of hunting pressure on the deer and boar populations.

Also at that time all the marksmanship clubs made a switch to air rifles, a tradition that has continued. Air rifle and pistol remain very popular club activities all over Germany to this day.

I have had very good luck shooting 185gr Corelokt bullets with IMR4064 powder. I keep the velocities modest, but even around 2,500 fps it is more than enough rifle for big game.

Jimro

 

[44 AMP]

Since it has WaA Pruf stamps, odds are that it is the later .323" bore rifle. The change in bullet size was done I think around 1905 nearly a decade before WW I and 30 years before Nazi rearmament.

According to what I have read, all the .318" rifles in military service were redone to take the .323" bullet, even before WW I. However, civilian manufacturers continued to produce .318" bore 8mm rifles until the WW II era, as well as the "new" .323" bore size.

There is some difference of opinion between some sources, some say the rifles were rebarreled to the new bore diameter, while a few say they were not rebarreled, but had the chambers recut to take the .323" bullet.

This does make sense, particularly economically. Certainly cheaper than rebarreling. The larger bullet going down the slightly smaller barrel does not produce a dangerous pressure excursion. What causes the dangerous pressure is the larger bullet in the smaller chamber, where there is no clearance for the case to expand and release the bullet.

Have it checked, to be sure, but odds are hugely in favor of it being a .323" 8mm bore.

The stepped barrel is military profile. If you can make out any numbers under the Nazi eagle acceptance marks, that might tell us which factory made it, if they actual maker's markings on the front action ring have been obliterated.

Punch stippling an action to make a rough surface is sometimes done to reduce glare.

The claw type mounts are typical, and standard German, sort of like the Weaver base and rings are the most common in the US.

Remington 8mm Mauser is underloaded by European standards, but it is a pretty fair performer even so. And the brass is fine for reloading.

 

[James K]

Is the left side of the receiver marked "Mod 98"? If so, the rifle started out as a K.98k, the standard German WWII infantry rifle. The scope mount sounds like the typical German claw type mount, and if so, pretty well confirms that the conversion was done in Germany. Those mounts were never available here, and few American gunsmiths of the era had ever seen one.

Eagle/swastika markings would definitely be WWII era.

The bore, needless to say, would be the "JS", bore (.323" groove diameter) and the ammunition would be the standard "8mm Mauser", commercial or surplus. FWIW, the old "J" bore became obsolete in 1905 for military rifles; some commercial sporters were made in that size for a few more years, but by WWII, the old size was long obsolete.

Jim

 

[Bucksnort1]

I will answer questions in the reply.

JamesK, There is no Mod 98 stamped on the left side of the receiver.

emcon5, On the top of the scope just behind the elevation and windage adjustment knob, there is what looks like a label, which is not stamped in the metal. Some of the label has worn off but I can see the word Waffen - ?. There are some letters below this but you can't tell what it is.

On the port side of the scope, the word, Hensoldt can be seen stamped into the scope tube. There are some letters or symbols after this but these too cannot be seen clearly because when the scope was attached to the claw mount, they were obliterated by sweat welding.

Jimro, I tried attaching a better photo of the tapers but but the system won't let me do so. I did attach a slightly fuzzy photo of the eagle and swastika.

If this rifle had been made pre-WWI, the bolt handle would be straight.

 

[Jim Watson]

Claw mount and little two leaf sight are a European signature.
As said, a military Mauser with a swastika was made 30+ years after introduction of the .323 spitzer.

 

[Savage99]

44 AMP,

What you wrote above is not correct:

You wrote:

"There is some difference of opinion between some sources, some say the rifles were rebarreled to the new bore diameter, while a few say they were not rebarreled, but had the chambers recut to take the .323" bullet."

Recutting a chamber will not change a bore diameter!

The barrel would have to be reamed out or rebarreled.

 

[Jim Watson]

My understanding is that the "S" conversion on 1888s and maybe pre-1905 1898s was to ream the chamber neck and throat only.
The chamber neck was enlarged to let the case neck expand and release the bullet smoothly - Clark's "bullet pinch" being a major source of excessive chamber pressure.
The chamber throat was tapered to let the larger bullets swage down gradually into the tight barrel.

 

[Bucksnort1]

Shazbot!! Now we're getting into the realm of TMI - Too Much Information.