Split "R-P" .38Spl cases from HSM

[DaveBeal]

I just loaded my first batch of .38Spl ammo. Most of the cases were mixed headstamps from cartridges re-manufactured by HSM. I had fired these cases only once, so I assume that the great majority had been fired a total of twice. Out of about 60 cases, I found 5 that were split at the mouth. All of the split cases had headstamps that said "R-P" and appeared to be nickel plated. I then opened a new box of HSMs and found a nickel "R-P" cartridge with a short split (about a 1/16" long) at the mouth. No more HSM ammo for me.

I realize that an ammo re-manufacturer can't inspect every single case he loads, but this is the first time I've ever noticed a case that was damaged before I fired it. Is this common? Who makes "R-P" cases, and are they known to be inferior?

 

[Brian Pfleuger]

R-P is Remington Peters. IIRC, their pistol cases are notoriously soft and most people do not reload them.

 

[jimbob86]

IME, Remington Peters brass (regular brass, as opposed to nickel plated brass) is not any more brittle than Winchester, PMC, CBC, or any of the others I use. The nickel plated stuff does split much sooner..... and all brass will split if you work it enough...... how much are you belling the case mouths? How much crimp?

....... you could anneal the case mouths, but it seems like a lot of trouble for pistol ammo.

 

[bullspotter]

I have had great life out of my R-P 38/357 brass. Including nickel. The HSM remaned ammo is not loaded with new brass, its range pu and puchased brass i assume, thats why its all mixed hs in your boxes. No way to tell how many times they were reloaded before HSM got them and loaded them to be sold. Personaly i would be calling them about the live rounds with splits in them. They SHOULD be inspecting every round, and should be culling anything not 100% Im not saying that using already used brass is bad, but selling ammo thats already got splits, would really make me wonder.......

 

[Sid]

I have reloaded the same batch of .38 special Remington brass at least 20 times and I have not had any problems. I have been reloading many calibers of pistol brass for over 50 years and have found little difference among the major American manufacturers.

 

[Mike Irwin]

"IIRC, their pistol cases are notoriously soft and most people do not reload them."

Your recaller isn't working correctly.

I've got some R-P .38 Special brass (not nickel plated) that has been loaded 40, some probably closer to 50, times now.

Some of them have been reloaded and fired so many times that they no longer have identifiable headstamps - they've been ironed flat.

I occasionally lose a couple to splits.

It's not a big deal, it happens.

Crimping hard will make it happen a lot sooner.

 

[Brian Pfleuger]

Your recaller isn't working correctly.

It happens.

Maybe it was S&B?

 

[Doodlebugger45]

Interesting. My only experience ever with HSM was I bought one box of 44 mag a few years ago because it was a good price. All of those cases appeared to be brand new and they all had HSM stamped on the head. They reloaded just fine. They acted about like WW brass. I have some RP brass in .44 mag. It is definitely different feeling. It sizes and flares with noticeably less effort than Winchester or Starline brass. I think it is a bit thinner. But it lasts just fine so far.

 

[700cdl]

Usually a split mouth is the result of over belling. This is especially problematic with the nickel stuuf, much more brittle. But standard yellow brass is much more forgiving.

 

[Shane Tuttle]

Maybe it was S&B?

*Index finger touching nose*

 

[rogn]

Its not unusual for loaded ammo to develop an occasional neck split in storage, especially if the cases have been sized several times. Longer storage =more splits. It not much usually<1%. So if ammo reloaded many times is destined for the shelf, it will pay to anneal if necks have been worked a lot. Also if ammo or cases are stored in an area with ammonia vapors{cleaning solvents} present, you'll see a lot more splitting.

 

[huntinaz]

Maybe it was S&B?

Man I have had great luck with S&B. I load most of my 38 loads in 357 cases, but the brass I hang on to is S&B. It doesn't last any longer than the others I don't think, but the testing I did (albeit limited) showed it was markedly more accurate than the R-P brass. The S&B brass I have was bought 15 years ago or so, that may make a difference. My accuracy tests also showed good accuracy with R-P cases with a cannelure. That stuff has been fine. So I think it may be a batch by batch thing, but that is speculation. As others have already stated, they've had good luck with Remington brass. I like it for rifle.

The problem with R-P brass, and I tend to agree with this theory, is that the case tension is poor and it leads to poor accuracy. This I have noticed first hand, and did a search after I tested accuracy with different brass and that's when I found the case tension issues. I believe this only applies to 38/357 cases, I have had good luck in other calibers and again, others have as well.

Anybody wants to trade me S&B for R-P cases, let me know

 

[m&p45acp10+1]

Regardless of headstamp nickled brass tends to split way sooner than plain brass does. Even more so if the case is heavily expanded, and hard crimped. I have R-P brass in my .41 Mag that has been reloaded so many time I do not want to try to count how many times, and I crimp each round very heavily, and load them realy hot. I have had a few split at the case mouth. I scrap them no big deal.

 

[MW surveyor]

With the exception of my "starter brass" (RP) all of my reloads are done using range pickups. Haven't seen any split cases yet out of my RPs and they've been reloaded at least 10 times.

 

[oneoldsap]

Your assumption that they hadn't been fired more than once isn't correct . For all you know they were left at the range by a reloader that left them because they were well past their prime ! The ( don't shoot anyone elses reloads ) mantra is a sound one . The fact that HSM is a commercial reloader does not change things at all . If anything they are scarier . I'm sure they buy range brass at scrap prices and " surprise surprise " they are not weeding out all the scrap . A friend had a case seperation with his .308 and HSM ammo that was almost catastrophic . Because of the 3 rings of steel and good gas venting abilities of the Rem. 700 there was no injury to shooter or gun . That ammo is like playing Russian Roulette with a round in each chamber . Your well being and firearms deserve better ammo , even if it costs a couple more bucks a box .

 

[mesinge2]

I have had problems with factory R-P nickel plated cases that were never reloaded. Half of the rounds from the following box split the length of the case in two different revolvers (Security Six and model 64):






Click Links to Enlarge

 

[Mike Irwin]

I've had Remington brass, and other brands, do that, as well.

I tend to call it burn through, and it usually happens when there is a flaw in the case, the batch of brass was bad, or there is some other kind of concentrated stress.


S&B brass is generally very good brass, as well, but there were some batches in the 1990s that were not up to their overall quality.

 

[reloader28]

I'm not to particular which brand it is for pistols.
They all get reloaded until they split or the primer pocket wont hold a primer.
If they not split yet, they get loaded again.
I have annealed some, but dont know yet how much it helped cause it turned winter.

 

[DaveBeal]

My thanks to everyone who responded. I will add that the batch of cases I was reloading included some R-P brass cases, none of which were cracked.

I had a theory that the cracked cases were thinner than the others, but it didn't pan out. Average weight of tumbled, deprimed cases, none marked "+P":

Cracked nickel-plated R-P: 65.83gr
Uncracked brass R-P: 64.18
Uncracked brass Federal: 65.93gr
Uncracked brass Winchester: 64.48gr

I wasn't aware that nickel-plated cases tend to be more brittle, but that seems like the best explanation here. The other lesson is that if you're planning to reload, start with new brass.

 

[Wildalaska]

If you found loaded rounds with cracked necks in a box of HSM ammo, then all you need to do is call them and I bet they will give you a new box.

Their customer service is outstanding and they stand behind their ammo. This is the first time I have ever seen or heard about a problem with their ammo and we sell it by the case as fast as we can get it in.

All ammo (except my loads in my gun and Lapau and Norma for us) can have problems, the question is how they deal with it...to date, Federal, HSM, Corbon and Winchester have passed that test. Thats why as an ammo seller we look to those brands first, some ammo, we wont sell at all.


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