Spats McGee Ponders Another Polymer Puzzle

[Spats McGee]

As some of you might recall, my first forays into the world of polymer pistols has been pretty well documented around here. It started with "Spats searches for a 9, phase 1," which eventually led to my purchase of a Glock 19. After I'd carried her for about 6 months, I posted "A Grudging Review of the Glock 19."

So here's my dilemma: When I bought Gretchen (my G19), part of my reasoning was that the G19 was a nice, soft-shooting 9mm that might appeal to Mrs. McGee. The short story on that is that Mrs. McGee does not like her, not one bit. As for me, I like my G19. I can't honestly say that I LOVE it, but I like it, and I like it a lot. I'm ~600 rounds out from the one glitch that she had, and she's been flawless since I replaced the slide lock spring. I'm convinced that she's more accurate than I am. She's light, carries comfortably and holds a sufficient quantity of ammuntion in an acceptable cartridge.

Since Mrs. McGee doesn’t like Gretchen, I can take that variable out of the equation. When I do that, well, I just keep circling back around and looking at those danged XDm 3.8" models. I have all of the necessary gear to keep Gretchen for range, home and carry use (8 magazines, 3 holsters, an extra slide lock spring and a cartridge in a bare tree . . . ). If I got an XDm for carry, I would have to figure in the cost of extra magazines, holsters, etc.

I've looked at all of the stats on the Genitron, Glock and Springfield Armory websites. Here are the raw numbers:
Height
G19: 4.99 in
XDm 9: 4.75 in
XDm .45: 4.75 in

Length
G19: 7.28 in
XDm 9: 6.75 in
XDm .45: 6.9 in

Width
G19: 1.18 inches
XDm 9: 1.18 in
XDm .45: 1.26 in

Weight
G19: 23.65 oz unloaded/30.18 oz loaded
XDm 9: 28 oz (compact mag)
XDm .45: 27 oz (compact mag)

Magazine capacity
G19: 15
XDm 9: 13
XDm .45: 9

I’m looking at these to be kind of a jack-of-all-trades gun: carry, home, range. I carry the G19 often, and am confident that I could carry an XDm pretty easily. The possible drawback to carrying the XDm is the weight and (minor) reduction in capacity.

The XDm 3.8 in 9mm is about 5 oz heavier than the G19, which I think (based upon my rudimentary understanding of physics) should absorb the recoil even better than Gretchen. (Right?) XDm also carries 13 rounds of 9mm, as opposed to 15.

However, I also prefer .45 to 9mm. Yes, 9mm is an acceptable cartridge, and I've carried the G19 often. 9mm has the advantage of being cheaper to shoot. The XDm has a 9-rd mag for .45. If I really had my 'druthers, I'd probably get the 9mm for practice (& maybe get into some competition shooting) and get a .45 for carry.

Have any of you carried both a G19 and an XDm in the 3.8”? (Not necessarily at the same time, mind you.) How do they compare? How difficult is the extra 5 oz to lug around all day?

You can see the poll options above. I have left “Keep the G19 and buy both,” because that’s not financially feasible, as much as I’d like for it to be. I’m not even sure that I will be able to buy an XDm without selling or trading the G19, but I might, if I’m real careful with my pennies.

So, fellow members, what should I do? Have I overlooked any critical elements in my analysis?

 

[Snyper]

Keep the Glock and buy a drop in 40 cal barrel if you want more power

 

[Joe_Pike]

Keep the Glock and buy a drop in 40 cal barrel if you want more power

I don't believe that's possible. If he had the G23 he could get a 9mm and .357 SIG barrel, though.

 

[lee n. field]

Have any of you carried both a G19 and an XDm in the 3.8”? (Not necessarily at the same time, mind you.) How do they compare?

Not quite.

Have a G19 but it is not often carried. Have an XD subcompact, that is in the carry rotation. That's comparable to what you're looking at.

I prefer the XD, though I recognize the G19's virtues.

How difficult is the extra 5 oz to lug around all day?

The XD subcompact is a heavy chunk of steel and plastic, yes indeed, but I have not found it difficult to carry. Loaded it weighs 31.5 oz.

 

[TunnelRat]

I have one 45. The rest of my 8 pistols are 9mm. What I carry is 9mm. To me the capacity and shootability advantages of 9mm combined with the nearly same performance as 45 ACP (when talking about quality JHPs) makes it a no brainer.

Have any of you carried both a G19 and an XDm in the 3.8”? (Not necessarily at the same time, mind you.) How do they compare? How difficult is the extra 5 oz to lug around all day?

Yes, I have. The weight isn't dramatic with a quality holster. Honestly the slightly smaller grip (I'm a bit narrow from front to back) was more of a help to me and it offset the weight. My issues with the XDm Compact stem from a pistol that to me feels unbalanced in the hand. Many people find polymer pistols unbalanced. I can honestly say the XDm Compact is one of the few polymer pistols that felt that way to me. The hunky slide of the XDm with the small grip was definitely noticeable. Now I still shot the pistol very well (better than a Glock) so it's sort of a moot point, just an observation.

P.S. - My wife isn't particularly good with handguns. She's great with a rifle, but not with many pistols. That said she always tries every pistol I own and there were some she liked (M&P, P99, etc.). She hated the Glock more than any of them. It frankly fit poorly in her very small hands and she even had limpwrist failures when she never had them before. I see a lot of guys buy guns "for the wife". Take the wife to a good public range, let her try as many as possible, then let her decide.

 

[Uncle Malice]

Spats,

I've had the XDM in 9mm and 45 in both compact and full size. I found the recoil pulse on the XDM 45 compact to be less than pleasant. The XDM 9 compact is definitely a pretty nice gun. It definitely needs a better trigger in my opinion. So add another $140 to the top of your cost.

I still have the XDM 9 fullsize and while I like it, the trigger is meh... even with the Springer Precision kit installed. I'm pretty much only keeping it as a point of reference. I've owned it a few times and sold... then forget why I sold.

If you're up for any other suggestions, I would push you to the M&P 9 with Apex DCAEK & AEK polymer trigger. You'll be all set with that for about the same price as the XDM out the door - before any trigger upgrades.

 

[TunnelRat]

I still have the XDM 9 fullsize and while I like it, the trigger is meh... even with the Springer Precision kit installed.

I would second this. To me the trigger on the XD/XDm has a less distinct break. With the APEX kit the M&P tops it pretty easily to me. But again I shoot either very well. I do have to say if you are open to ideas, have the wife see if one fits her hand better.

 

[noonesshowmonkey]

Lots of experienced folks take a dim view of the XD grip safety. Too many failures to disengage when firing under stress.

If you have the Glock 19, carry it, and train with it, stick with it. Spend any extra money on good training and more ammo.

 

[TunnelRat]

Lots of experienced folks take a dim view of the XD grip safety. Too many failures to disengage when firing under stress.

Could you give us some links to those individuals that had trouble while shooting?

 

[noonesshowmonkey]

A cursory googling of 'xd grip safety failure' or 'disable xd grip safety' will skim a few decent pages.

I don't mean to cause a thread derailment about a 'feature' of the XD series.

 

[TunnelRat]

A cursory googling of 'xd grip safety failure' or 'disable xd grip safety' will skim a few decent pages.

I don't mean to cause a thread derailment about a 'feature' of the XD series.

I see a lot of folks talking about the potential for it, I see some guns that had some problems from factory, but I don't see what I would call widespread problems.

 

[jmr40]

Of the plastic pistols I like Glock best. The XD or S&W offerings are good enough, I just like the Glock better.

My advice:

The triggers/ergonomics are just different enough that I'd suggest staying with one brand. Pick one, and buy multiple guns of the same brand and you will be much happier going from one to the other.

I sort of think of the Glocks as a shooting system rather than individual guns. I have G-17, 19, 26. I keep the mag made for the gun in it when carrying, but only use G-17 mags as spares. I also have G20 and G21. The grips are a little bigger, but cheap practice with one of the 9mm's is with the same trigger and feel.

You can do similar things with S&W or XD. Just with fewer options. No 10mm option, which is a big part of why I stayed with Glock. I have tried the others, didn't hate them, but did hate going back and forth between different systems. So I chose Glock.

 

[amd6547]

Selling the G19 is starting down a dangerous path. One where great pistols are sold in the rush to try the next great thing.
Did that myself far too many times, and live with regret for selling guns I wish I still had and probably never will again.

 

[noonesshowmonkey]

I see a lot of folks talking about the potential for it, I see some guns that had some problems from factory, but I don't see what I would call widespread problems.

If you dig a bit deeper into a few forums, and especially into the blogs / forums of various trainers and training groups, there is a pretty strong trend that starts to show up. This trend aligns with my anecdotal experience, and turns what are just 'my stories' into something more like 'the truth', as I know it.

I don't mean to be opaque.

When you read the opinions of folks that see 50 students a class firing thousands of rounds over the course of a few days, there are clearly identifiable trends that show up. Trainers working with the public have a far freer hand to speak than those working within various operations communities, and still see tons of shooters firing tons of ammo. A few trends show up in these classes, not the least of which are XDs failing to fire.

What is most interesting is that, like paddle holster NDs, the XD produced failures to fire across skill and experience levels. Yep. A fella who trains civilians and with serious operators has seen NDs with paddle holsters, and XDs go 'click' instead of 'bang'. When a failure shows itself across such a wide field of skill and experience, I'd judge that failure to be systemic to the platform and not the shooter.

And so, I again suggest the Glock 19, for whatever that is worth.

 

[TunnelRat]

I don't mean to be opaque.

Then don't be. What's the name of this trainer? Do you remember what groups mentioned problems? I don't mind reading if you can point me in a more specific direction than Google. Right now all you're giving is, "I heard it from some people", and, "I read it on some forums". Well heck I have read on a number of forums that Glocks can't eject a spent casing without hitting you in the face. But that doesn't mean I believe it. I have shot and seen plenty of folks shoot XDs and I haven't seen anyone have the grip safety cause a failure to fire unless they were intentionally trying to cause it to happen out of curiosity.

I don't think you're being opaque on purpose, I just don't think you have anything solid other than hearsay and rumor. Deriving trends from those sources is full of opportunity for mistaken conclusions. And I don't even own an XD anymore so I'm not a fanboy.

Is the grip safety a potential flaw? I have to admit it is another point of failure. I'm just not sure there is reliable evidence out there.

 

[ranchito457]

If you do go with the XDM before the end of the month- springfield is offering a 3 free mag promo.So that's 3 mags when you buy the gun and 3 more from the promo for a total of 6..Till the end of October

 

[noonesshowmonkey]

I am no firearms instructor, and I don't see classes of students at a time.

Name a trainer. From the ignominious Chuck Yeager, to Gabe Suarze, to plenty of others, there is a pretty strong trend away from certain traits in firearms. A grip safety is one of them.

I can name names of friends and acquaintences of mine, or even their credentials, but those don't matter in terms of what you can find on the internet.

If you look, it is there. Is it hearsay? What on the internet isn't, by and large. Point is, there is a consistent trend, both in what is available publically, and in my own experience, and in the experience of those I know, all of which is in accord on certain issues, the XD grip safety included.

There are many different ways to prioritize training, weapon choices, reasons and methods for carry, etc. The people who choose similar reasons to my own tend to take a dim view of firearms that have certain features (low capacity, grip or thumb safeties, to name two) in lieu of other options.

Take what you want from that. My choices are exactly that, mine. I don't claim to be some kind of expert. I simply claim that there are trends out there if you look for them.

 

[Microgunner]

I've got an XDm9 and it's a fine pistol but after installing PRP trigger and striker upgrades it's an absolutely fantastic pistol.
I think you should have the Glock and XDm9.

 

[Dragline45]

While I am not a Glock fan, I do like the Glock 19. I voted keep the 19 and down the road get the XD in .45.

 

[TunnelRat]

Name a trainer. From the ignominious Chuck Yeager, to Gabe Suarze, to plenty of others, there is a pretty strong trend away from certain traits in firearms.

I believe you mean James Yeager. Chuck Yeager was a famous pilot and not a firearms instructor to my knowledge. Yeager also once said that 1911s were garbage (well he was more blunt than that) and then he developed a relationship with Kimber who then sent him a 1911 and he became much more favorable towards the type. Instructors are great sources of information, but they're no more unbiased than any person and their opinions can evolve with time and circumstances.

Take what you want from that. My choices are exactly that, mine. I don't claim to be some kind of expert.

Fair enough.

I simply claim that there are trends out there if you look for them.

And I'm simply saying deriving trends from internet forum gossip isn't necessarily the best way to determine the truth. Is there truth on there? No doubt. But more often than not people go online to complain about problems than to praise. The pool you're selecting from is already biased towards being negative.