some thoughts on the tactics and strategy of defense

[JiminTexas]

Many, even most of the people that I talk to, either use or recommend the shotgun as the best home defense weapon. I do not always agree with that. Just think about the home defense situation and decide for yourself what the best tactics and strategies that you should use and prepare for. Here are a few factors to consider in making that decision. What are the ranges that we would be expected to shoot at? What are the targets that we are expected to hit? What is the time frame or duration of the gunfight that we are expecting to engage in? How much maneuvering room will you have? What happens to the bullet after you hit your target or if you miss yoiur target?

The ranges - How many places in your home do you have more than a 25 or 30 foot long clear field of fire? I would venture that unless you live in a mansion there is no place in your home that provides a 50 foot clear field of fire. So, we are looking at very short ranges. Well what if the bad guy is outside trying to get in? Just how many badguys are going to continue to try to get in after you either shoot them or fire a shot at them? None that I know of. O.K. what if they are outside and running away? If they are ouside running away, why are you shooting at them? You have already done what you were trying to do. You have stopped a home invasion. If you shoot them now, they will go free and you will be arrested. So what to use? It depends on how well you shoot. If you can shoot it proficiently, you may want to use a handgun. If you do not shoot well, a shotgun may be the best solution for you. In either case though, training and practice are mandatory. It is you duty to be proficient and safe if you are going to elect to arm yourself.

The targets - Let's assume that the home invader is a person, not a space alien or Bigfoot. So the target is going to be an average size human. A pretty big target considering the short ranges. You shoud practice shooting at this size target at the ranges that you can reasonably expect to encounter these targets.

Time frame - Once the shooting starts how long is the badguy going to stick around? Do you think that he will still be there five minute after the shooting starts? I don't think so. Well what if you have him pinned down and he can't escape? If that is the case you just screwed up. You are trying to STOP a home invasion, not prolong it. Leave him an avenue of escape if at all possible. Let him out of the house and let the police catch him. That's what we pay them to do. Most gunbattles do not last five minutes. In fact they last less than one minute. If the gunfight lasts less than one minute, why would you need a bag full of ammunition? Wouldn't five or six rounds be more than enough? O.K. keep a second magazine or a reload strip or some form of ammo carrier readily at hand if this makes you feel better.

Maneuvering room - Chances are very good that you will be in some area that restricts your movement no matter where you live, a hallway, a foyer. crouched down behind a couch. Your long barreled weapon is going to impair your movement and ability to respond quickly. O.K., how about short barreled pump action shotguns? Nope, still too long for my tastes for maneuvering and how do you work that pump action quickly if you are lying on the floor? How do you shoot around a corner to your right with a longarm without exposing yourself? This is not so much of a problem with a handgun.

Colateral dammage - Finally we have come to an area that the shotgun is far and away the leader of the pact, but not if you are using the most popular loadings, 00 buckshot or slugs. True, they are the most devastating close range loading of them all, but they will carry on through interior walls for a very, very long distance. Birdshot no larger than size BB (.177 dia.) is the way to go with the shotgun. It is still devastating on a human, but it does not kill everyone in the building. Pistol and rifle bullets have the same problem. If you live in a single family house, do you have less to worry about concerning colateral dammage than a person that lives in an apartment house? No, not if you have kids asleep in their beds.

Solutions - Well maybe not solutions but ways to reduce the effects of some of these challenges. If your main concern is shots carrying on through walls, you may want to use frangible ammunition or a shotgun using birdshot. If your living space is particualrly small or cramped you may want to use a handgun rather than a long arm to defend the castle. If you do choose a shotgun make it an autoloader. You can lie on the floor flat and still poperate it. A rifle would be my last choice, but it's better than no gun at all. either a handgun or a shotgun will do well as a home defense weapon, IF YOU CAN SHOOT THEM. If you don't practice or can't shoot, don't, just throw the gun at them, but first make sure it isn't loaded.

What do I keep around the house? I have two weapons that I keep handy. My first line of defense is an eight round (7+1) .45 ACP with my XTP handloads in it and yes, I do have a spare magazine with it. My other gun is a 5+1 12 Ga shotgun loaded with 3" shells containing steel BB shot.

 

[Sleuth]

JiminTexas, some of your assumtions are way off base. They may work for you, but, unlike 83% of Americans, I don't live in a city. I don't live in a suburb, I live way out in the country. My nearesy neighbor is 1/4 mile away, and out of sight due to terrain.
Police response time? The Sheriff can take 45 minutes to get here.
"Collateral Damage"? Only my vehicles and propane tank, all expendable if under attack.
Number of potential attackers? Numerous, from 'minority' gangs to extreamist groups (There are some in the area) to folks I arrested when I was a Fed.
How dedicated will they be? Some of them (meth heads, guys who spent years in prison because of me) may be willing to press their attack.

Thus, with extended ranges, and the likelyhood that I will know about their arrival in advance thanks to my 'fuzzy alarms systems' (dogs), combined with their need to travel by vehicle, a true battle rifle, backed up by a carbine (5.56) and handguns are my choice.

But, we all get to decide for ourselves. You have the rest of your life to find out if your choices were acceptable - and your choices may determind how long you will live.

 

[raimius]

If your ammunition of choice (birdshot) will not penetrate multiple layers of drywall, how do expect it to stop an attacker. Causing pain may or may not stop an attacker. Disabling their CNS or vital organs WILL stop them. (Hopefully it never comes to that, but if you are facing a lethal force situation, why accept a less effective choice?)

I can agree with your stance on the length of the firearm wholeheartedly, although for someone less trained, the length will actually aid in instinctive aiming.

 

[Dwight55]

Jimin Texas, . . . as Sleuth said, . . . what works for you, . . . isn't always the right "prescription" for others.

My situation is far closer to Sleuth's, . . . but for other reasons: I am a pastor. There are literally thousands of people who know my stands on many controversial topics (controversial to society, . . . not to me), . . . and given the opportunity, . . . yeah they would come down my driveway in the black SUV's or whatever.

A .308 battle rifle is choice # 1, . . .

An M16 look alike is choice # 2, . . .

I have a shotgun and a couple of handguns when all else is done.

It is my plan to expire in my house, . . . surrounded by piles of brass and other MT cartridges, . . . beaten to death with one of my own MT long guns.

I'll probably run out of targets long before I have to delve into the bird shot, . . . but I have a couple boxes of that too

May God bless,
Dwight

 

[tony pasley]

My daughter has a house that has a hallway to the bedroom that is 28 feet long. The master bedroom at the end of the hall, with a solid dutch door so she fords up in the bedroom and waits for help with a shotgun pointed down the hallway. I recommend shotgun for those to ford up in the bedroom, not to try to clear the house.

 

[Onward Allusion]

Sleuth
JiminTexas, some of your assumtions are way off base. They may work for you, but, unlike 83% of Americans, I don't live in a city. I don't live in a suburb, I live way out in the country. My nearesy neighbor is 1/4 mile away, and out of sight due to terrain.

In your scenario, I would have an AK with a few 30 rounders as primary HD. I doubt city folks could get away with an AK as a primary HD weapon...

 

[Onward Allusion]

JiminTexas
some thoughts on the tactics and strategy of defense

One size doesn't fit all. It depends on the individual and where they are situated. For me, a hi-cap 9mm for me and a 6-shot 38spl for the wife suffices. For others, it might be an AK/AR.

 

[40caljustice]

A small pump shotgun (which I currently don't have) loaded with 00 or #1 buck and a high capacity full-size handgun is almost bare minimum for HD IMO. You want a pump gun because semiautomatic shotguns can fail. Its easier to clear a misfire with a pump than a semi. Same with a handgun. Revolvers are more reliable than semi's. I just don't own a revolver. I personally think the OP forgot two of the most important things in a HD situation. A big bright flashlight and a phone. I like a full-size Mag lite because it can be used as a club if need be.

AK's and AR15's are great if its a carbine and the house is in the country. My grandpa has gotten to the age where big handguns are hard to shoot due to arthritis. He now keeps his .30cal carbine with 15(?) shots by the bed and his j-frame .38 on the night stand. That's what he feels comfortable with. I didn't even know he had the .30 until recently.

I just have my full-size XDm .40 plus a couple more compacts if that doesn't work and I pray I never need them.

 

[MLeake]

JiminTexas seems to base his argument on two assumptions:

1) There will only be one bad guy. Trend for home invasion type break-ins seems to be more like three or four BGs, and I rarely read of fewer than two in armed break-ins in the Atlanta area.

2) The BG will immediately break off and flee once engaged. This is probably true in a high percentage of cases, but not all.

JiminTexas also appears to make another assumption, based on his big target, short range comments:

3) The home owner will hit with most or all shots.

I don't think most of us have had practice shooting at targets that return fire, or engaging moving targets who may try to use cover and concealment, while we also try to use cover and concealment.

Suffice to say, whether in a rural or urban area, I don't agree with those assumptions.

 

[TylerD45ACP]

IMHO, I believe and have read trained people say this is to use your pistol. The pistol you are most comfortable with for instance carry gun or just your favorite accurate range gun you could use in the house. I am using my 5906 9mm as an immediate pick up. I like the 1911 better but I opted with my nice 9mm because in a bump in the night situation I want the rounds. I may be groggy and not be able to focus as well. I want to throw more lead. I think its the best anyway because you can clear your house well with a pistol better than any AK or Shotgun. Try it (Unloaded Of-Course) and notice how you can hold the pistol close to your chest in tight spots letting off almost hip fire rounds. I believe in also staying low because a BG is not going to expect you to come around a corner crouching or laying down and youll have the advantage. He will have to adjust aim while you just fire. I dont know I am kind of rambling just some thoughts. I use my 1911 45 sometimes as well, but in more away situations like just hanging around my house in the day. I think the pistol is your best choice unless you have a full auto permit and get an MP5K. That would be PERFECT.

 

[bdc2020]

I've always liked the down low approach, except it slows your maneuvering ability. But that is only if you don't know what's around the corner of course.

All our bedrooms are upstairs and along a straight hallways with stairs in the center of the hall. My plan has always been to maintain the upstairs safety by not allowing access to the landing of the stairs while phoning authorities. Sure they may get valuables downstairs in the meantime, but that can all be replaced.

That's one advantage a multi-level home has over a ranch style.

 

[FireForged]

If I am going to form a idea in my mind of what a bad guy might be like. I will err on the side of the dramatic and assume that they will be unrealisticly fearless and supernatually determined.

This is the person I will build my self defense strategy around and if they happen be something less, well that is just fine.

 

[jhenry]

I would call that a very sensible approach.

 

[Skadoosh]

but not if you are using the most popular loadings, 00 buckshot or slugs. True, they are the most devastating close range loading of them all, but they will carry on through interior walls for a very, very long distance.

<sigh>

Some people will never get it. I will never load birdshot for SD...and especially in a home invasion scenario. Heck, even LE wont load up with birdshot.

 

[BUFF]

I tend to agree with the pump 12ga and simi auto pistol way of thinking. I made my HD gun purchases wth that in mind.

A Mossberg 500 with a pistol grip loaded with 6+1 00 and slugs in the bedroom closet. The pistol grip makes it short enough to wield in the house and shoot with one hand if i had too.

A Ruger P85 with ambi safety and mag release on the nightstand. Nice capacity with ambi controls in case i have to go weak hand or one hand shooting.

And a 3 cell Maglite doubles as a club if i get that close.

I live out in the country too, so the plan is too gather the brood and hunker down in the bedroom till the calvary show.

 

[JiminTexas]

I understand what you country dwellers are saying, but you are missing a point. O.K., you have your battle rifle with several 20 round magazines. You see someone approaching at night from 200 yards away and you blow him away with five or six rounds because he is "on my property". So just what are you going to tell the jury that will convince them that you felt in imminent danger of great bodily harm or death? Can you even determine if a person is male or female or eight years old at night from that distance? What if the person turns out to be a 12 year old girl whose family ran out of gas on the road and she's carrying a stick to ward off dogs (like yours that scare the hell out of her) You people are talking paranoid stupidity. What if he is much closer? If he is that much closer what in the heck are you using a battle rifle for? If that person is more than fifty yards away, even if he is armed, don't shoot! Well if he takes aim at you go ahead and shoot, but if he is just carrying a gun, don't shoot. May be he's out coon hunting. You can stop him and challenge him or warn him, but you can't shoot him. If you do you are going to go to prison. If thay person does not show a weapon overtly and is more than 15 yards away, don't shoot, stupid. Having a gun in your hand at home does NOT give you the authority to become judge, jury and executioner. It just gives you the opportunity to defend yourself in dire situations. Juries see dire situations differently than what I've read of your ideas of dire situations are.

 

[mnealtx]

You make a lot of unfounded assumptions, Jim - nobody has advocated ANY of your contrived scenarios.

 

[MLeake]

Jim, some of us like rifles and shotguns because not every threat on property is a biped. Of course, some threats are bipeds.

The 870 in our bedroom is loaded with 1 round 7.5 birdshot, 2 rounds 00, and 3 slugs. Why? Primary concern is that we'll find a rattlesnake on property, and our dogs may not be smart enough to avoid it, in which case one of us will go shoot it. In case of home intruder, immediate follow up with buckshot is a good thing to have. If it is a BG, and he decides to take cover after the first rounds fired, slugs are nice, as they will go through walls and furniture, but in our area they won't then carry far enough to hit anybody else or anybody else's house. Finally, we do have black bears and hogs around here, so slugs are potentially useful.

My AR might really be the better choice for dedicated HD. 5.56 tends to do well against BGs, and against light armor, but doesn't penetrate a whole lot of drywall. An AR would not be my first choice for anti-snake or anti-quadruped duty.

My Garand would be good against all but snakes... and it might be ok against snakes, too, just need to shoot from a bit further back.

Thing is, my lady likes the 870 better than the AR or Garand, so the 870 is one of her bedroom guns - the other being a S&W M65, which she also shoots reasonably well.

Oh, yeah, we also have a little dog that barks, and two big bull mixes that could probably bite if they decided to.

I don't worry all that much about break-ins.

 

[TheNocturnus]

Since I am relatively new to HD guns I will not judge anyone on their choices, nor should I ever. But what do you recommend for a homeowner that has 6 pets? (3 dogs and 3 cats, my wife and I are vet techs)

I though about getting a shotgun but the thought of shooting it at a BG and inadvertently killing one or more of my pets is just unacceptable to me. I could never live with myself after that. I have a Glock 23 and a couple .22 lr pistols, do you guys think that is sufficient?

 

[MLeake]

Given that a typical 12ga pattern is less than 1" per yard distance, how much less likely do you think you are to hit Fido with your G23 when shooting in a high-stress scenario, as opposed to the shotgun?

Frankly, I'd go with whichever one you are more comfortable shooting.

As far as house-clearing maneuvers, for the most part I don't recommend them. If you have kids, then you may want to set up a plan for how you will ensure they are protected should something happen. Your floor plan will limit your options.

If you don't have kids, or if you can get them into a dedicated room, then barricading while calling 911 is the better plan. Note: good idea to have both a cordless, land-line phone (much easier for the police to trace location, if you have to abandon the call to deal with a situation) plus a cell phone (in case the goblins cut your land-line) available.