Some Help With S&W Models

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ScotchMan

New member
I may be opening a can of worms here that I will regret, but I hesitantly request some kind of explanation for how S&W revolvers are named/numbered. I see a lot of redundancy and confusion and seeming overlap in models.

For example, looking purely at the NightGuard series (four guns to think about instead of at least one million in the regular line), the 327 and 386 seem identical except the 327 carries 8 rounds while the 386 carries 7. Why would anyone buy the 386? They are similar weight, same barrel length, same everything. The 327 is $70 more. Is anyone buying the 386 to save $70?

Further, some models are named with a two number model (Model 60, Model 14) and some are three numbers (342, 642, 442). It seems like the second two digits indicate something, while the first digit indicates material/finish?

Is the plan really just to have every possible combination of specs so that you can buy EXACTLY the gun you want even for tiny savings in cost? How does the numbering system work?
 
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hardworker

New member
Anything ending in 27 will be a 357 on the N frame. Anything ending in 29 will be 44 mag. Anything ending in 25 will be a 45 auto or colt, depending. Anything ending in 86 will be a 357 on the L frame. Anything ending in 10, except a model 10, will be in 40s&w or 10mm. All stainless guns start with a 6. They don't really use names anymore so don't worry about them.
 
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HighValleyRanch

New member
I think that the 386 7 shot is on the L frame and the 327 8 shot is on the N frame. The N frame is larger than the L and the cylinder is going to be wider.

So to your question as to why someone would choose the 386 over the 327 is size compromise for one shot less.

Depending on how you carry, this size difference might be big or not.

If you asked me today, which I would want, I can't say, because I have been mulling over this dilemma for over a couple of months.
Coming from the "dark side" I feel naked with six shots compared to 18,
but love the revolver platform. So an eight shot revolver seems very enticing.
But it is a big gun!

By the way, here is an excellent thread on the two you discuss over at the SW forums. 386 vs. 327
http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-revolvers-1980-present/96966-327-night-guard-vs-386-ng.html

I can carry my 4" .44 mag N frame, but it does take some work!
But in the woods, that weight feels like security!:eek:
 
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pendennis

Moderator
There's a very good...

...reference work published, "The Standard Catalogue of Smith & Wesson", Third Edition. The cost is between $35 and $40, and it's the most complete work to date on Smith & Wesson firearms.

If you have even a remote desire to learn anything about S&W firearms, you should buy this book. It starts as the beginning, and goes up through about 2007-2008. It details the frames, serial numbering, commemoratives, and model changes over the years. It also has a goodly number of photographs giving examples of a lot of the different guns produced over the years.

Also keep in mind, that S&W is in the gun-making and -selling business. It drives tyros and veterans alike, nuts, trying to keep up with collecting and/or shooting them. S&W comes up with these changes, name and numbering conventions because they have a system which makes sense to the manufacturer, and not the end-user.
 
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MLeake

New member
As mentioned already, a "6" prefix denotes stainless steel. Also, a "4" indicates aluminum alloy frame; a "3" indicates scandium.

As far as confusing model numbers go, S&W isn't the only one out there. Back when I had a GP100, what I technically had was a KGP-141, which was Ruger terminology for a stainless (K) GP100 with 4" barrel and adjustable sights. I believe the 3" fixed sight stainless at the time was the KGP-130.
 
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Webleymkv

New member
There is a system to S&W's model numbers albeit a somewhat confusing one. From the earliest days of model numbers, we had the following:

1x- K-Frame (medium)
2x- N-Frame (large)
3x- J-Frame (small)

Things started getting confusing when S&W started running out of two-digit numbers for new models. Their initial response was to add different series of two-digit numbers for new models which brought us the following:

4x- J-Frame
5x- N-Frame
6x- Stainless Steel (initially in J-Frames and K-Frames).

Things got even more confusing still when the L-Frame (in between the K-Frame and N-Frame) was introduced as S&W brought out the three-digit system as follows:

6xx- stainless or aluminum alloy with silver-coating
5xx- carbon steel with blue or nickel finish
4xx- aluminum alloy with black coating
3xx- scandium alloy.

As to your original question (327 vs. 386) the 327 is built on the N-Frame which is why it can accommodate an 8-shot cylinder while the 386 is built on the L-Frame which is why it only has a 7-shot cylinder. The smallest equivalent of the two afforementioned models would be the 360 which is a J-Frame and has a 5-shot cylinder. S&W did make K-Frame .357 Magnum with a six shot cylinder, but none of them used the three-digit model number system nor were they ever made with anything but steel frames.
 
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carguychris

New member
My 342 is not scandium alloy. So, what gives?
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I'm pretty sure that the frame should be scandium. To add to the confusion, a 3xx-series gun may have a stainless steel cylinder or a titanium cylinder depending on which exact edition it is.
 
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MLeake

New member
There are odd exceptions to the numbering system.

The 642, for instance, doesn't have a stainless frame. It's an aluminum frame, with stainless barrel and cylinder. Meanwhile, the 442 also has an aluminum frame, but has a carbon steel barrel and cylinder. (And yes, I know all steel is carbon steel, in one way or another...)

We actually had an argument about whether the 442 had a stainless or carbon cylinder, sometime last month, on TFL. The S&W website incorrectly said the 442 had stainless, but it has since been corrected.

http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product4_750001_750051_764936_-1_757768_757767_757751_ProductDisplayErrorView_Y
 
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Winchester_73

New member
There are odd exceptions to the numbering system.

The 642, for instance, doesn't have a stainless frame. It's an aluminum frame, with stainless barrel and cylinder. Meanwhile, the 442 also has an aluminum frame, but has a carbon steel barrel and cylinder. (And yes, I know all steel is carbon steel, in one way or another...)
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Its not really an odd exception in the sense that USUALLY, a 3 digit model, such as 442, refers to first number X as composition and the last 2, XX is the model that its derived from. So a 442, is almost just like a model 42 or a 637 is pretty much a model 37, with a different composition. However, there is no model 86 for a 586/686, or 81 for 581/681, etc, so what I said is not always true, but I would say it is usually.

If you have even a remote desire to learn anything about S&W firearms, you should buy this book (SCSW 3rd). It starts as the beginning, and goes up through about 2007-2008. It details the frames, serial numbering, commemoratives, and model changes over the years. It also has a goodly number of photographs giving examples of a lot of the different guns produced over the years.
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+1, although the book has several errors so its not a bible either. It covers the basic info and a lot of advanced info thoroughly but as I said, it does have errors such as for the M&P "square butt uncommon worth premium" when nearly all M&Ps are square butt. The book means to say "round butt worth premium" and there are several other errors as well. Its still worth the money however.

I recently sent my friend an email while I was at work (no reference materials) that had all of the frames, calibers, barrel lengths, etc for each model from 10-68 (some are expirmental such as the model 44 never existed) and the model 73, then some of the 3 digit models as well. I memorized most of the 2 digit models, but I am a collector so from reading and re-reading the models, and owning many, it wasn't very hard for me to recite.

Being a S&W guy, I of course think that the Colt history is more complicated (I suppose because I know less about it than S&W and I read less about it than S&W) but you have your python, then you have a boa, then grizzly, which all have python barrels then you got your trooper, then versions MKIII and MKV then King cobra (trooper disc) then you got these obscure models such as border patrol, commando, metropolitan, pocket positive, marshal, viper, etc. Its almost like they gave a different revolver name for each minor difference on top of having many failed/low production designs but then again, one could say that about S&W although I would say most of the models are vastly different from each other except for 14/15, 17/18, and even then, there are big differences, IMO.
 
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Webleymkv

New member
In some ways, the S&W model numbering system makes things easier because you don't have nearly as large a variation in features within a particular model. Take for example a S&W Model 686 as opposed to a Ruger GP100. If I just tell you that I have a GP100, you do not know what the barrel length (3, 4, or 6"), barrel type (half or full underlug) caliber (.38 Special or .357 Magnum), finish (blue or stainless), or sights (fixed or adjustable) are without knowing the Ruger catalog number like KGP-141. If I simply tell you that I have a S&W 686, you will already be able to know that my revolver is stainless steel, chambered for .357 Magnum, has a heavy, full-lug barrel (some 686 variants do not have a full lug, but they're rare and the difference is usually incorporated into the model number), and adjustable sights. The only information you will not have is the barrel length and gripframe (round butt vs. square butt).

I do admit, however, that names such as Military & Police, Highway Patrolman, Combat Magnum, and Bodyguard are much more interesting than a simple model number.
 
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KyJim

New member
Being a S&W guy, I of course think that the Colt history is more complicated (I suppose because I know less about it than S&W and I read less about it than S&W) . . .
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Yes, SW never used confusing names like Colt. Please disregard:

a. the Bodyguard which can be a shrouded alloy J-frame revolver in .38 spl, hammerless polymer J-frame revolver in .38 spl. +P, or the semi-auto .380 caliber pistol;

b. the M&P which may be the K-frame .38 spl revolver from the 1940s and 50s (dates not meant to be exact) or the line of polymer, striker fired semi-autos that come in 9mm, .40 SW, and .45 acp.;

c. Target Masterpiece, Combat Masterpiece, Combat Special, and the Combat Magnum;

d. the LadySmith which refers to multiple revolvers and semi-autos.

Plus others. :D
 
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ScotchMan

New member
Webley, very good point. I would counter however, that if you said GP-100, I would know you had a medium-sized frame revolver, probably in .357 Magnum, and what it looks like. While I agree that if you know the numbering system, you can glean more information from just the model number, I, being a fairly new consumer and having extensively browsed the S&W and Ruger product offerings, could probably know what every model of Ruger revolver currently in production is, and pick them out of a lineup. I can't say the same for S&W outside a few particular ones that caught my eye.
 
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Dapperdan

New member
The S&W revolver line is extensive to say the least. The Ruger line of DA's is nowhere near as large by comparison. I sometimes think it's a matter of trying to use numbers "as close as you can," but with a huge number of models, some duplication is bound to occur. Remember, they used to use just numbers, or numbers with one letter for serial numbers, but soon had to change their system to accommodate their huge production. In other words, I think they do the best they can to avoid confusion, but, for me, they wasted their time! Have a good day.
 
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carguychris

New member
Just to muddy the waters further, the Model 357 isn't.
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It's fun to contrast S&W model numbers and calibers:
  • The Model 22 is a .45
  • The Model 32 is a .38
  • The Model 41 is a .22
  • The Model 44 is a 9mm (extremely rare experimental SAO M39-2 variant)
  • The Model 45 is a .22 (note that they're reversed)
  • The Model 357 is a .41
Hey, at least the Model 38 is indeed a .38! :)
 
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