Some help needed for California travel!

[Powderman]

Looking for someone who is experienced with the State of California to give me a heads up!

Next year, I intend to visit some friends down in AZ. Living in WA State, the easiest and fastest way is to simply take I-5 south to 210, do a big circle around LA, and then head to Phoenix. Here's the sticky part:

I will be taking along a .50 BMG rifle, an M1A, an MSAR and a few more goodies.

Of course, the firearms will be locked in transport cases, and I will not be stopping anywhere in the State of California, except for fuel.

Can anyone tell me if I will be OK doing this--or is it best to avoid California altogether?

 

[NukemJim]

IANAL

Theoreticly you should be legal under federal law.

But I would not do it. If there is a problem (car accident, medical emergency, pulled over and searched by LEO) it could take thousands of dollars and years of effort to defend yourself legally, and there is the possibility of you losing.
"In law nothing is certain but the expense"

Good luck

NukemJim

 

[Aguila Blanca]

FOPA (Firearms Owners Protection Act).

 

[Alaska444]

The problem of the Federal laws for protection is that they also state to stay in compliance with the Feds, you must honor all state laws as well.

I would NOT go through CA with those weapons. You are asking for trouble if an LEO ever sees them, period. Take a longer but more scenic route through the tri-cities of Kennewick, down the 84 and past Boise, down to Salt Lake on the 15 and then snake your way through hyway 89 and Bryce, Zion and Grand Canyon down to AZ. It will be much more memorable than going down the cow factories on the I-5, but you will be in compliance with all state laws going that route.

In addition, the Federal Firearms Protection Act may be moot when you stop for food or gas since you are no longer passing through. CA doesn't fool around with firearms laws. Just ask the kid at a laundry open carrying on private property who was thrown in jail for doing it within 1000 feet of a school he didn't even know was there.

 

[Aguila Blanca]

The problem of the Federal laws for protection is that they also state to stay in compliance with the Feds, you must honor all state laws as well.

The FOPA does not say any such thing. In fact, it says exactly the opposite:

TITLE 18--CRIMES AND CRIMINAL PROCEDURE

PART I--CRIMES

CHAPTER 44--FIREARMS

Sec. 926A. Interstate transportation of firearms

Notwithstanding any other provision of any law or any rule or regulation of a State or any political subdivision thereof, any person who is not otherwise prohibited by this chapter from transporting, shipping, or receiving a firearm shall be entitled to transport a firearm for any lawful purpose from any place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm to any other place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm if, during such transportation the firearm is unloaded, and neither the firearm nor any ammunition being transported is readily accessible or is directly accessible from the passenger compartment of such transporting vehicle: Provided, That in the case of a vehicle without a compartment separate from the driver's compartment the firearm or ammunition shall be contained in a locked container other than the glove compartment or console.

 

[Wag]

Why risk it?

I used to live in KA and we just didn't risk anything with those guys.

There's always the remot possibility that someone will have "cause" to create a problem for you and even if you're in the right, you could spend many years and much money to prove it.

Spend the extra time avoiding Kalifornia.

--Wag--

 

[Alaska444]

T

he FOPA does not say any such thing. In fact, it says exactly the opposite:

Not to be contentious, but as a California resident, even though Federal law does not many aspects that California law does, why then am i not free to run over to Las Vegas and buy what ever I want and bring it back here to Komifornia? Simply put, Federal law makes the Nevada gun shops honor California state law for California residents. Likewise up in Idaho, I can look but not buy anything up there besides ammo but even that will soon be restricted as well. Why, because Federal law says that they must honor the state laws of its citizens even when outside of California. You need to read the next section that you quoted to me:

Sec. 926A. Interstate transportation of firearms

Notwithstanding any other provision of any law or any rule or regulation of a State or any political subdivision thereof, any person who is not otherwise prohibited by this chapter from transporting, shipping, or receiving a firearm shall be entitled to transport a firearm for any lawful purpose from any place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm to any other place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm if, during such transportation the firearm is unloaded, and neither the firearm nor any ammunition being transported is readily accessible or is directly accessible from the passenger compartment of such transporting vehiclerovided, That in the case of a vehicle without a compartment separate from the driver's compartment the firearm or ammunition shall be contained in a locked container other than the glove compartment or console.


Sec. 927. Effect on State law

No provision of this chapter shall be construed as indicating an intent on the part of the Congress to occupy the field in which such provision operates to the exclusion of the law of any State on the same subject matter, unless there is a direct and positive conflict between such provision and the law of the State so that the two cannot be reconciled or consistently stand together.

http://www.nraila.org/federalfirearms.htm#Sec. 926A

 

[Alaska444]

Take a look at California state law. Hopefully this will put the issue to rest. For the .50 BMG, it is a felony to possess or TRANSPORT it in California. The Federal Firearms Protection Act will NOT protect you if you are foolish enough to bring that type of weapon across the CA state line.


Assault Weapons and .50 BMG Rifles

It is a felony for any person to manufacture, distribute, transport, import into California, or keep or offer for sale, or give or lend, an assault weapon or .50 BMG rifle. (Penal
Code § 12280.)

http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/Cfl2006.pdf

 

[Aguila Blanca]

Alaska444, you are creating a classic red herring. YOU are a resident of California. Powderman is asking about transiting through California as a non-resident. The rules that apply to a California resident purchasing a firearm in another state are unrelated to the specific intent of the FOPA, which addresses ONLY transportation through multiple states. His question does not involve purchase, and it does not involve residency in California.

The FOPA certainly would allow him to transport a .50 BMG through California. Transporting through is not importing to. The language of the FOPA is extremely clear that it supercedes state laws, for the limited purpose of allowing travel between two locations where possession of the firearms is lawful.

 

[Al Norris]

Aguila has it correct.

If I owned a full auto firearm and had to transit CA to make it to a shoot in AZ, FOPA allows this.

The requirement is that the firearm is legal in the State I start from and it is legal in the State I am going to. As long as I don't make any stop(s), other than what is necessary for travel, I am protected from individual State laws, as I traverse those States.

 

[Alaska444]

Like others have stated, it could cost you a whole lot of money in THIS state to keep that right under the FOPA. Take a look at what NRA-ILA says:

FEDERAL LAW ON TRANSPORTATION OF FIREARMS

A provision of the federal law known as the Firearms Owners’ Protection Act, or FOPA, protects those who are transporting firearms for lawful purposes from local restrictions which would otherwise prohibit passage.

Under FOPA, notwithstanding any state or local law, a person is entitled to transport a firearm from any place where he or she may lawfully possess such firearm to any other place where he or she may lawfully possess it, if the firearm is unloaded and locked out of reach. In vehicles without a trunk, the unloaded firearm shall be in a locked container other than the glove compartment or console. Ammunition that is either locked out of reach in the trunk or in a locked container other than the glove compartment or console is also covered. FOPA also seems to provide for necessary stops, like gasoline and rest.

Travelers should be aware that some state and local governments treat this federal provision as an “affirmative defense” that may only be raised after an arrest.

http://www.nraila.org/gunlaws/federal/read.aspx?id=59

Just ask Phillip Dominguez how much exercising his 2A rights cost him after being arrested at LAX for lawfully possessed guns. I believe his case has been dropped since then, couldn't find an update. But I doubt very much he will get any of his legal fees back. Not sure if he got his weapons back either. California is NOT a gun friendly state. As I said before, take the scenic route. Why bother with the potential problems that a zealous LEO could make for you here.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28589280/

Sensibly Progressive has update. I blogged about his case a few days ago -- Mr. Dominguez is a law-abiding construction company owner, who owned a registered "assault rifle," which in California he could legally take from his house to a shooting range. He was going shooting with a friend who was arriving by plane, and was arrested at the airport on the apparently claim that by stopping at the airport in the middle of that drive he broke the law.

The update notes that they followed with a SWAT raid on his house and seizure of all his (legal) firearms, and those of his family.

Fortunately, he's got some first rate firearm attorneys. If you'd like to contribute to his defense, click here.

http://armsandthelaw.com/archives/2009/02/update_on_phill.php

Here, did a bit of digging, he plead no contest to a misdemeanor weapons charge and THEN the felony charges were dropped.

http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local-beat/Loaded-Gun-Plus-LAX-Equals-Bad-Idea.html

 

[Alaska444]

It appears that the only time it is legal to transport a .50 BMG by a non-resident of California is in virtue of an organized competitive match or league competition that involves such weapons. In the mean time, you will get to prove that AFTER your arrest. Perhaps you won't be convicted, but I would like to be a fly on the wall as you explain these issues to our loving and friendly LEO's we have here in California. The hand cuffs and dirt on your face from being spread eagle on the ground will only be an added benefit of exercising your FOPA rights.

Video tape the encounter for all of us to enjoy as well.

Take the scenic route through Utah and forget about the entire issue with CA laws. They are bad enough for us stuck here to deal with, let alone outsiders. There is a Cracker Barrel in Boise ID, Layton Utah, Provo and St George Utah. Great trip and Cracker Barrel makes the trip even better. Been down that route once myself avoiding a snow storm in Montana going up through the pass to Butte and Missoula just last year. Great Best Western in Kennewick as well for the trip back if it gets late.

Good luck,

 

[roy reali]

reowderman

Don't worry about it. They just elected a new Governor and he should be sworn in by then. From what I hear he is a real level-headed fellow that is going to restore sanity to the Golden State. Just see how long it takes for them repeal all those silly gun laws they have.

 

[zippy13]

Roy,
There may be some good news: this morning's LA Times reports Republican Steve Cooley has built a narrow lead against NRA opposed San Francisco DA Kamala Harris in the race for CA's Attorney General.

 

[roy reali]

re:zippy13

I hope so, for California's sake. I was born and raised there. Even though I do tease it, I am also saddened and angered by what is going on there. But, some of it is deserved. Last Tuesday proves.

It isn't just the anti-guns laws, the state is crooked as far as I am concerned. Crooked and corupt.

We have pheasant clubs in Nevada. If you live in California grab your gun, your shells, pay the club fees and have fun. No hunting license or tags are required because these are planted, not wild birds.

If a Nevadan wants to hunt a California pheasant club, he must buy a hunting license and an upland stamp. This is not to hunt wild birds, but birds that have been pen raised and planted. Why must the Golden State charge for this hunting?

Again, corupt and crooked.

 

[Dabull]

I have a related question, though it doesn't involve transiting CA, but visiting it.

A friend will be visiting family in CA over the holidays. He wants to take his normal concealed carry pistol with him and go shooting with his family at some point. His pistol holds less than 10 rounds and his CCL is not recognized in CA.

Other than the requirement to transport the gun unloaded (magazine separate from pistol) in a locked case, are there any other rules he must observe?

(Also, I heard there is some kind of CA approved guns list...perhaps it has something to do with a drop test...does this affect what pistol can be brought into the state by a visitor)?