Some barrels just won't shoot

[FrankenMauser]

I'm just extending a courtesy to my fellow members to remind you that, sometimes, a barrel is just a piece of crap.

I've been fighting a particular 5.56x45mm AR-15 barrel for over a year.

I have tried about 15 different types of ammunition (factory and reloads, 'standard' grade and match grade).
I have lapped the receiver.
I have bedded the barrel extension.
I tried free-floating the barrel.
I tried lapping the barrel.
I recrowned the barrel.
And I even tried it with and without the muzzle attachment.

Nada. Zip. Zilch. Absolutely NO improvement, since lapping the receiver (which shrank groups by 25-40%, depending upon the ammunition).

After a year's worth of work, 4 different ring and mount combinations, 4 different scopes, and far too much ammunition wasted on the thing, the best it will do is a 4.972" group ... at fifty yards!

So, it is now being retired from bullet launching service, and transferred to dedicated golf ball launching duty where it will only see blank cartridges for the rest of its time in my possession.



I know people are probably expecting a photo of a target. So, here it is. The BEST group this barrel has EVER shot. But keep in mind that it was overcast and raining; so image quality isn't stellar.
Holes that are difficult to see are highlighted in red.
And the group is placed so incredibly poorly because the scope (a good Redfield) ran out of adjustment, due to whatever it is that's so wrong with this barrel.

And one of the many forms this golf ball launcher can take on is "Space Gun".
(Complete with engraved Millet rings and a craptastic scope that sits so low that you can't actually use it! )

 

[FrankenMauser]

Just to show that the above group was not significantly influenced by weather, or a bad day for the shooter....

This (10 shot) group was shot in the same conditions, at 100 yards, by the same shooter (me - the only guy "dumb enough" to shoot in the rain), with my 6x45mm AR, about 10 minutes later:

0.559" x 0.424"

....And that was actually the second largest group of the day for the 6x45mm. It's best group of the day was 0.160".

 

[solvability]

Credit due for working the problem.

 

[Beagle333]

After a year's worth of work, 4 different ring and mount combinations, 4 different scopes, and far too much ammunition....

I'd say you definitely gave it the good fight!

 

[reynolds357]

It thinks is is a Brown Bess. It knows it is a military rifle, it is just mixed up on which type it is.

 

[Gunplummer]

Yeah, those barrels are out there. I worked on a 99 Savage in .300 once that was as bad. I tried looking up the bore and used an angled mirror in the chamber. I finally pulled it an then could see a definite "Step" about half way up the barrel where the drill or broach had bumped over. Who knows why some will not shoot. I had a lot more I never figured out.

 

[hooligan1]

Frankenmauser....what kind of grouping do you get with those golfballs?

 

[FrankenMauser]

Frankenmauser....what kind of grouping do you get with those golfballs?

1-2 acres at 500 yards.

 

[BumbleBug]

You didn't say what brand/cost of barrel (or did I miss it). I know everyone expects better than 4" groups at 50yds, but is it a real "cheapie"?

 

[olddav]

It does happen. I've come across one barrel that I could not get to group well, 3" at 100 yards. Finally decided to change the barrel and was quite relieved when the replacement barrel showed improvement on the first trip to the range. At least then I knew I was not a failure as I was working with a inferior/damaged barrel. Just like you I spent a lot of time and money fighting a losing battle.

 

[Sweet Shooter]

I know you're done with it, but just out of curiosity, what twist? HCL? CHF? Do you feel any slack spots in the bore when patching it? Some CHF barrels especially a x7 will ruin a projectile because of slack spots. Doesn't have to be a bulge, just slack enough to lose grip on an accelerating projectile causing it to re-engrave on a different rotation.
-SS-

 

[stagpanther]

why not just swap barrels?

 

[SIGSHR]

Have you slugged the barrel ?

 

[FrankenMauser]

why not just swap barrels?

I need an upper for launching golf balls.

No other .223/5.56 that I own has all of the required attributes:
A) The appropriate barrel length. (12" minimum)
B) A threaded muzzle.
C) An easily removable muzzle device.
D) A barrel that I'm willing to occasionally get a little dirt in, should it rub off of a golf ball.

Several of the alternatives meet one or more of the criteria, but none meet all of the requirements.

I'm more comfortable making this a dedicated golf ball launcher, than taking the chance at getting dirt in, or constantly removing muzzle devices from, something that actually shoots well.

You didn't say what brand/cost of barrel (or did I miss it). I know everyone expects better than 4" groups at 50yds, but is it a real "cheapie"?

I honestly don't remember. It came from PSA as a complete upper, but I don't remember if it was PSA or PTAC. I bought a whole bunch of parts and uppers over a 7-9 week period, and can't really recall what was what, now.
The barrel and upper are completely unmarked - not even with chambering - so I'd lean toward PTAC.

---

It's not chrome lined. The bore doesn't feel like it has any loose spots or constrictions.
Twist is ... don't remember ... checking .....
1:7"
Bore dimensions are within reason: 0.2187" x 0.2243"

Factory ammo and handloads tested included everything from 52 gr Speer HPs up to 77 gr SMKs. That "best" group was fired with factory Hornady 55gr SPs.

I've only been able to recover a few jacket fragments and one jacket "base" (about 1/4" of the cup). None of them showed evidence of the bullet 'skidding' or jumping the rifling. --I'm fairly familiar with the concept and identifying the symptoms. I have a .444 Marlin in which bullets love to "skip" the rifling when I push them too hard.

The only real abnormality that's easily identifiable is a weird chamber. Headspace is good. Body dimensions are good. And the neck and throat are good.
...But the shoulder geometry is screwy. Whatever reamer cut this chamber was worn out or broken. The shoulder has a large radius in the transition to the body, and a small radius in the transition into the neck, that make it look like a Weatherby cartridge. If you necked these fired cases down to .20 caliber, you'd have no problem convincing people that it was ".204 Weatherby".

Having messed with some oddball cartridges, cartridges that require fire-forming, and other rifles with "non-standard" chambers, I don't believe that to be the cause of the issues here.

I just tried to find some of the cases fired in this chamber, in order to share a photo, but can't find the boxes of brass right now. At the very least, I should be able to find the brass from the testing that I did on Tuesday ... you would think. But, no.....

 

[Picher]

I'd have given it about three tries, then it would be a tomato stake.

As Kenny sang: "You've got to know...when to fold 'em."

 

[Sevens]

It does sound like fun to launch a golf ball in this way, but is there more to it? Is there some kind of "game" associated with launching golf balls with blanks?

Do you attempt to FIND the golf ball? Sounds like that could be an all-day kind of game!

 

[FrankenMauser]

Sevens,
The practice is still in its infancy. Fewer than 2 dozen balls have been launched, thus far, because I exhausted my entire supply of suitable projectiles.

We launch the golf balls where failure to recover them won't be a problem. (Private land. Golf courses. Chemical weapons incinerators. You know... the usual. )
But, we do try to recover as many as possible.

It's mostly just fun to launch golf balls.
We have considered trying to shoot them once they land, but it can be quite difficult spotting a golf ball in the sage brush and prairie grass, at 300+ yards.

We have tried close range reactive targets. That was a total failure with the hodge-podge of golf balls that I had. They all flew very differently, particularly in the first 50 yards.
We were more consistently hitting a tree at 400 yards, than a milk jug at 30 feet (we never hit the milk jug, in 8 attempts ).

But... I bought 300 used, cleaned range balls that are all of the same make, model, and age. So, consistency and predictability should improve a bit.

I also have 3 different types of blanks as launch charges:
LC M200. (M16 blank)
LC M200A1. (SAW blank)
AWB Grenade / Golf Ball blanks. (Custom load from Atlantic Wall Blanks)

The M200 is a bit sissified and disappointing.
The AWB blanks are decent.
The M200A1 is awesome. ...600+ yards with a good ball and the right elevation.

 

[Picher]

If the launcher doesn't impart consistent spin to the golf balls, you basically have a musket. Putting may be quite difficult in any case. LOL