So What's The Norm

[ShootingNut]

To expect when reloading, at least with the Lee powder equipment.
How many FTE's out of say 300 loads should one see, due to lack of a accurate powder drop? After weighing in one out of ten loads, it is not very encouraging to get "fizzer" and have to check to see if the bullet made it out of your barrel. That said, I hear some say it happens with factory loads, which I never have experienced.

 

[Jim Watson]

The acceptable level of powder charges so far off the setpoint as to cause malfunction is zero point zip nil. If you are getting badly underweight powder charges, it is time to change powders or to change measures. I've done it.

What powder are you now using? A large flake powder in a light load is a known offender.

 

[layusn1]

"How many FTE's out of say 300 loads should one see, due to lack of a accurate powder drop? After weighing in one out of ten loads, it is not very encouraging to get "fizzer""

I would think that would be a visible difference in powder level. I don't think you can blame that on the gear or fix it by buying more expensive gear. There is no acceptable level of bad rounds due to loader (human) error. If you could trace the problem back to the primer with 100% certainty then that would be OK but you should always be eye-balling the powder drops. If something even looks like it might be off stop and check it. It will save you a lot of frustration later...despite slowing down your rounds per hour production...I'm not saying thats what you were doing by the way...

 

[Arub]

I've been using a Lee turret for about 6 years. Have experienced four squibs. The first two were with the first ten rounds I loaded. They were set up cartridges I used to set OAL and crimp with. I had mixed them in with the loaded rounds. As a lesson learned I now use primerless casings for set up.

The second two were made when distracted by a rather large, mischevious hound. A major distraction. I now load with Maxx in another room. If he ventures into the "loading" room I stop production.

No equipment related failures with thousands of rounds loaded.

 

[CrustyFN]

I will side with the others here and say zero. I have loaded a few thousand rounds on a Classic Turret and haven't had any problems. I did have one squib when new but it was my fault and not the equipment.
Rusty

 

[donttellthewife]

Having been a range rat for years now I have seen many factory duds. When I go to the range to shoot I always ( with permission ) empty the brass buckets and sort and reload at a later date. The range does not have a dud container so people drop them in the brass bucket. I must have 30lbs of duds 22lr being the worst but all common calibers and brands are repesented. When I pull them down for the components it's almost always the primers that did not fire.

A brass rod is now always in my range bag for helping myself and others remove sqibs from their barrel and a couple of taps for removeing broken cases.

In reloading the goal is none.
I agree that a new powder measure is in order ( or rebuild it ) if it drops charges that inconsistant.

As far as my reloads, never any rifle rounds out of 4000 or so fired. One sqib out of 10,000 handgun loads. It's hard for me to see in the case so I now use a powder check device that alarms when the charge is out of spec. My reloading room has a locking door which stays locked while reloading, so I can't be distracted. I also try to use powders that will fill the case nicely or dump all over the place in the unlikely event of a double charge. That's not always possible when loading large handgun cases.

 

[WIL TERRY]

" The Norm" Is None, Nada, Zilcho, And Zip [ Period]

I am now over 850,000 rounds handloaded--since 1960--- and have yet to have my first.

 

[ShootingNut]

Will Terry

Great, now what are you using for equipment? Hand scooping each powder charge and weighing it, running 50 rounds an hour?

 

[copdills]

I have only used three different powders with my two lee pro's and all came out right , bullseye, win 231 and blue dot

 

[Usaro4]

I've been relading for 13 years. I've used equipment of all the major colors, green, red, orange, the other red, but no blue. I've had zero squibs. I would'nt accept a "consistent" failure rate of any % other than zero. I'm far from perfect and I've made my share of mistakes but I check and double check and sometimes triple check and I've caught the problems and corrected them and adjusted my reloading procedures accordingly. Even the most experienced loader is bound to have a mistake slip through eventually, so far with diligence I've avoided it but it is gonna happen some day, I'll do everything within my power to postpone it. I just think that if you approach this hobby with the attitude that you will accept a "consistent" failure rate of 2% or .1% or any % you are choosing the wrong hobby. Find something less riskey like knitting where you wont injure yourself or others. I apologize in advance for sounding so harsh.

 

[Unclenick]

ShootingNut,

You have some seriously basic problem here. If you are getting fizzlers, you can elimenate the primer problem. Fizzlers, or squibs are not really FTF's (Failure To Fire; FTE is Failure To Expand), but rather have too little powder to propel the bullet or too little to burn properly. You need to tell us the details of the load that is messing up, and what equipment you are loading it with?

If the powder is Unique, in particular, it tends to bridge and block entry into some of the smaller chambered powder measures. Lee warns you not to try to use it in their Perfect powder measure at all. Even something like my old RCBS Uniflow, with its smaller cavity drum in place, will not throw Unique as consistently as I like to see.

If you are loading 296 or H110 into magnum cases in a reduced loads fired in a revolver, that particular powder (they are the same St. Marks powder re-branded) is known to fizzle under those conditions. The published factory minimums must not be reduced in a revolver. Reduced loads of it can extinguish or fizzle when the barrel/cylinder gap vents pressure after the bullet jumps to the barrel. It requires adequate start pressure to keep burning right through that gap venting event, and only a nearly full load achieves adequate start pressure for that.

If you are reloading one-at-a-time and charging cases separately from a measure, you should use a loading tray to hold cases during charging. You can then look inside the casemouths after charging to verify they all appear to have the same powder level. If you are running some sort of progressive or semi-progressive press, you need to look into the cases just before placing the bullet on them so you can see that the powder level is adequate. Set up one of the snake head white LED lights to shine into the case mouth if that helps you see inside?

 

[donttellthewife]

Usaro4,

So you think knitting is safe, well I am here to tell you different.
First they no longer allow knitting needles on aircraft, they realize the dangers, that alone should be warning enough. But if that does not convince you, read on.

My wife is a "unlicensed knitter" and I have suffered the consequences of this so called "less risky hobby". The mental and physical scars from that couch incident so long ago still haunt me. I have never again, been able to sit down without first cradleling the twins. I am certain that I will loose years of my life to secound hand yarn fibers from the uncaring knitter who sits beside me creating the fiber cloud. But nothing can compare to the most dangerous and life threating aspect of knitting, someone has to wear those itchy sweaters

 

[Scorch]

First they no longer allow knitting needles on aircraft

Yes, but they won't let you take bottled water on, either. Just wait 'til they find out I'm 80% water!

I have never again, been able to sit down without first cradleling the twins.

That explains why they won't let you on an aircraft anymore!

 

[ShootingNut]

Unclenick

For reloading equipment, I am using a Lee Classic Turret Press. I went with the Lee Pro Auto Powder option, and have used both their disk's and auto charge bar. Due to my turret not stopping exacatly where it should all the time, I have elected to use my turret as a single stage. I load 9mm, .40SW,
and .38Spl and .357Mag. I have a turret and dies for each (4) calibers, properly adjusted, cleaned regularly and ready for each session.
My recent failure to eject happened as follows. Handgun is a Stoeger Cougar 8000 in 9mm.
I use Hodgdon Titegroup powder, weighing in drops of 3.6 to 3.8 grains, below
a lead CN cast bullet from Mastercast. The Hodgdon chart for my 125 grain lead CN shows a start of 3.6 to a max of 4.0.
As I stated, my practice is to weigh at least every ten drops. I place them in loading trays, and do light them to visually check for any suspicous looking levels.
When I first started reloading, I did have one low powder fired from my Smith
686P. I have tried to become more exact as time has passed.
So, I was surprised that apparently a low charge "snuck" by me. No harm done of course to me or the gun, just wakes you up real fast when you don't get the usual BANG and muzzle flip.
Thank you for your thoughts, and sharing your experience with me.
Regards,
ShootingNut

 

[44 AMP]

I don't use Lee brand reloading equipment...

Other than their GI decapper/base unit. I have one of their die sets (.357), and don't use it. Not that there is anything particularly worng with their stuff, I just don't like it.

Lots of folks get Lee stuff because it is the cheapest available. It does work, if you take the time and effort to make sure. I have been loading since the early 70's, and all my stuff is Lyman or RCBS (ok, I do have one set of Herter's dies), and I am quite happy with it.

You have a problem with Lee? Don't ask for help from me. Talk to Lee.

 

[amamnn]

Although I use a lot of Lee equipment and tools, I think Richard Lee has a blind spot with his approach to powder handling. I have never used a Lee powder measure thar I considered worth the powder to blow it...............

I like the PACT scale dispenser combo-- failure rate is 0 using it.

 

[CrustyFN]

I use Hodgdon Titegroup powder, weighing in drops of 3.6 to 3.8 grains,

ShootingNut are you using the charge bar to try and throw those charges? If so I think that might be your problem. I had problems trying to throw Titegroup light with the charge bar. Also with your turret not spinning might contribute to the problem. Try taking a screwdriver and tapping the bottom 2 or 3 times before each powder drop. If you are going to throw Titegroup that light I would suggest the Micro Disk. Hope this helps.
Rusty

Edit: I can throw Titegroup all day long in my Pro Auto Disk with almost zero variation. I use the smallest cavity and get 3.9 grains under a 124 plated bullet.

 

[ShootingNut]

Crusty

No, I have learned through trail and error, and forum advice not to use my auto charge bar when charges get below say 4.0.
So I use the disk. Someone else just posted saying with the Lee Auto Powder equipment, they had a variation of .6 grains (all over the map).
So my variation of late, at .2 I can live with, loading somewhat between the start and max load per the chart.
A big improvement in Lee products in my opinion, could and should be in their powder measureing auto equipment. I'm not an engineer, nor do I have the expertise to suggest how they do that. BUT at least I read others stating that I'm not the only one that has seen this weight drop variation. As long as some have this situation, it just slows up the reloading process (which I can live with), as you cannot be confident you are dropping the prescribed amount of powder.
You may be right about maybe the powder drop would be more accurate, if I were using the turret rod. I started that way, and quit mainly because of the irratic stop points on occasion. But thinking back, I still recall my weighing a swing in the powder drop.
I am beginning to wonder, maybe some on the forum are right, and a coupld hundred more bucks for a Lyman or RCBS setup would have purchased a more accurate setup. Now, I know for sure that statement will get the hair up on
Benedict's neck (and a response), which I welcome his input always.

 

[Peter M. Eick]

What's the norm for lack of powder failures or failure to drop?

Well, I am trying to make it a one in a million shot but I have not made it yet. I am currently at 0 in 165,000 with my Pro2000. I have yet to have a single lack of powder drop that I am aware of in my pro2000 in 165,000 rounds. It does not mean that the next round I do may have a problem, but I sure try to avoid it.

My goal is to make this a once in a lifetime experience. Since I am not dead yet, and it has not happened yet, the opportunity exists but we should try and eliminate it.

I have to admit I am a bit paranoid about the double charge problem though. This is what I am really watching for.

 

[ShootingNut]

Peter

I take it that your Pro2000 is not a Lee product? All I see on the Lee website is a Pro1000 http://hunting.about.com/gi/dynamic...14&bt=0&bts=0&zu=http://www.leeprecision.com/

If yours is an upgrade to the Pro1000 what is different? As far as the Powder drop equipment, this website pic shows a chain dropping down from the handle/arm. Using my Lee Classic Turret, the Pro Auto Powder mechanism is activated (as you probably know), by the casing going into the powder/flare die.

Anyway, I see it less of a problem with a low powder charge, than as you say a double charge. Unless that is, one is fast firing and chamber another round firing with a bullet still in the barrel from the last firing. From what I have read and heard, that would not be pleasant at all. Maybe as bad as your case of double charge I would suspect.
Even if the gun does eject the casing, if it didn't sound like the other "Bangs", myself with an semi-auto I would stop and check it out. Is that being Paranoid, or just using your head?