So some of the posts have been really helpful for rifles

[Photon Guy]

Some of the posts here have been really helpful for rifles and for what good rifle companies might be. Forget all the big name commercial brands such as Winchester, Remington, Marlin, even Browning. They're all good but with some of the posts here and from conferring at gun shops I've learned of brands that are better, more high end, but with a higher price tag. From internet research I used to think Steyr Mannlicher was a top brand and they're good but here I've learned of other brands that could rival or even bypass Steyr Mannlicher. Brands such as Dakota Arms or Cooper for instance, although they probably have a similar or higher price tag.

 

[James K]

"...for what good rifle companies might be."

Define "good". When I worked in a gun shop a while back, we had some great customers who bought nothing but Weatherbys. Others wouldn't touch anything not made in Germany, or hand built in England, or custom made by one or another small shop.

So did those guns shoot better? Did the owners take more game? Well, maybe, but some never took their guns hunting, a few never fired them. They bought those high ticket guns for the same reason some ladies shell out thousands of bucks for a Hermes purse - bragging rights.

Nor, unfortunately, does high price always mean high quality or functional perfection or even the best accuracy, though it should mean more consistent quality. Even if one has the money to buy the top end, it is always better to buy what you like and what works best for you. And what you will use. I have never seen the point of shelling out thousands of dollars for a rifle that will sit in a gun cabinet because it is too pretty to take out, while that beat up, plastic-stocked Remington brings home the meat. Except for bragging points.

Jim

 

[T. O'Heir]

Higher price tags mean nothing. Don't buy stuff because you think high prices means high quality. Cadillac's have high price tags, but are exactly the same as a Chevy(also high priced) under the paint.
The big name commercial brands are all pretty much the same. Lot of 'em(like Browning) are marketing based on the name too. And have been for years. That doesn't mean smaller shops like Dakota Arms or Cooper are any better.

 

[jmr40]

Remington, Winchester, Ruger, Browning etc. are all production rifles. They all offer several models ranging from top end, down to budget rifles. Styer, Sako and other brands do the same. I've owned, or at least shot all of the brands above. The best of the Styer's or Sako's are no better than the best of the others. The budget guns offered by all of the above tend to shoot every bit as well. They just don't have the finer finishes and other details. Often plastic parts are substituted for machined steel that would on the high end models.

There are some smaller companies such as Montana, Cooper, Dakota, etc., that are really semi-customs. I'll be honest, I've never ventured into that type of rifle. They look very nice, and I'm certain they shoot well. But not enough for me to justify the cost.

Lots of folks look at Kimber as one of the high end rifles. Don't get me wrong, I own and like Kimbers. But they are really in the same category as Remington, Winchester, Ruger, and Browning. Their rifles aren't much, if any more expensive than the top end offerings from those companies. They are just now cataloging a budget version of their rifle, but I've yet to see one. Nor have I read any reports of them from anyone who has used one.

With Kimber you are paying a small premium for the weight reduction, not better quality than Remington, Winchester etc. If someone wants a 5 lb rifle they are truly a bargain at about $1,200. Anything else at or near that weight is going to be a NULA,( New Ultralight Arms) that sells for $3,000+ or a true custom that would cost $3000-$4,000 to build.

 

[dgludwig]

If you want a better finish and a higher level of workmanship on any firearm, there is a price to pay. Whether the higher price is justified is up to the individual, but don't kid yourself: higher prices generally reflect a more intensive, skilled labor investment and that not only costs more money but usually results in a "better" firearm, at least in an aesthetic, if subjective, sense.

 

[SSA]

I grew up believing that a rifle was supposed to look like a Winchester 70. My Model 70 30/06 has functioned perfectly for about 20 years now, and it looks just right. So, as far as I can tell, there is no better rifle than the Winchester 70 30/06.

 

[Pathfinder45]

Mine is a 270, but otherwise, everything that SSA said, applies to me as well.

 

[Art Eatman]

With today's lathes, mills, shapers and drill presses having greater precision than of yesteryear, tight-group capability can be had at relatively low prices.

What makes costs higher, generally, is fit and finish and the quality of both the wood of the stock and the proper fitting in the bedding.

I once had a guided tour during a visit to Bo Clerke's barrel making operation in Raton. He told me that they turned out some 160 barrels per week for .17, .204 and .22 calibers. Bore tolerance was one-ten-thousandth of an inch.

I didn't ask who were his customers, but at some 8,000 per year, there had to be many non-custom-rifle buyers. Some, from ads I read, were after-market for such as the Ruger 10/22.

 

[Mauser69]

My Winchester Model 70 Featherweight (.30-06), Remington 700 BDL from the 70s (.22-250), and Sako Finnbear from the 70s (.270) are all fantastic firearms with wonderful fit and finish and outstanding accuracy.

The worst disappointment I have had is my Steyr Mannlicher from the 70s - it was beautiful on the shelf, but it is very painful to shoot, and the toy-grade crappy plastic began breaking within 5 years. That terrible gun wasn't worth even half the price of a standard American rifle, but it cost much more!

 

[Photon Guy]

Remington, Winchester, Ruger, Browning etc.

From what I know about Ruger their forte is handguns, specifically revolvers. Anything made by Ruger should be good though, although I've had problems with some of my Rugers.

 

[Photon Guy]

So did those guns shoot better? Did the owners take more game? Well, maybe, but some never took their guns hunting, a few never fired them. They bought those high ticket guns for the same reason some ladies shell out thousands of bucks for a Hermes purse - bragging rights.

Nor, unfortunately, does high price always mean high quality or functional perfection or even the best accuracy, though it should mean more consistent quality. Even if one has the money to buy the top end, it is always better to buy what you like and what works best for you. And what you will use. I have never seen the point of shelling out thousands of dollars for a rifle that will sit in a gun cabinet because it is too pretty to take out, while that beat up, plastic-stocked Remington brings home the meat. Except for bragging points.

Well here is what I spent seven grand on.
http://108.174.112.211/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/Buffalo-framed1.jpg

I've only fired it once since bullets are $20 apiece although I could imagine taking it hunting if I ever hunt anything really big such as Elephant or Hippo but I bought it because I want something very powerful and for collection purposes.

 

[Photon Guy]

Lots of folks look at Kimber as one of the high end rifles. Don't get me wrong, I own and like Kimbers. But they are really in the same category as Remington, Winchester, Ruger, and Browning. Their rifles aren't much, if any more expensive than the top end offerings from those companies. They are just now cataloging a budget version of their rifle, but I've yet to see one. Nor have I read any reports of them from anyone who has used one.

I thought Kimber excelled in handguns although I do know they make rifles too. I've done research which includes speaking to people at gun shops and they tell me that Steyr Mannlicher is a high end brand and that its generally of higher quality than Winchester, Remington, or even Browning. I've made some posts on this forum about Steyr Mannlicher rifles and people here have claimed that other high end companies such as Dakota Arms and Cooper can be just as good or better. One of the downsides I've heard about Steyr Mannlicher rifles is that their synthetic stock is not of a really good material.

 

[Photon Guy]

By good I mean high quality. I used to think Remingtons were really good but I've heard that as of recently their products have plunged in terms of quality. You can get a Savage Arms rifle for much less than a Remington and it will be a much better gun. That's what this guy who worked at a gun shop told me, Cabela's to be exact. I asked around about that and I got further confirmation that Remington does not make good quality products like it used to. Older Remingtons are good but the newer ones are junk. This is a shame as from what I heard about the Remington company its got quite a history. Elirphalet Remington supposedly made guns at home that were better than the commercial brands. So with his home made guns being better than the main brands, Elirphalet went on to start a big business of his own and that's how Remington became a big commercial brand itself. But that was in the good old days.

Now, as for my experience with Remington. I've got a Remington 870 which I got back in 2001 shortly after the terrorist attacks so I've had it for close to 15 years. As of now although it functions just fine it has rusted on the outside. Also, two years ago I got a Remington 750 in .30-06 and after keeping it in my safe for a few months it had rusted on the inside so the chamber wouldn't open and I had to take it in to get all the rust cleaned out so it could be opened and safely fired. Other than that I do have a Remington 700 in .375 H&H and I have had no problems with it so far, although I don't use it all that much. Also, around Christmas last year I got a Bushmaster in 5.56 which from what I understand is now owned by Remington. I've used it quite a bit and I've had no problems with it although I do have to keep it well oiled and I have to keep a sheath around it to keep it from rusting.

 

[603Country]

Simple fact - if you want 'the good stuff', it will be expensive. That goes for cars, rifles, woodworking tools, optics, trophy wives, and many other things. You can assuredly get 'good enough' for a low or reasonable price, if that will satisfy you, and it does satisfy most of us.

 

[Photon Guy]

Simple fact - if you want 'the good stuff', it will be expensive. That goes for cars, rifles, woodworking tools, optics, trophy wives, and many other things. You can assuredly get 'good enough' for a low or reasonable price, if that will satisfy you, and it does satisfy most of us.

Not necessarily. If you know how to find a good bargain you can get good stuff without completely breaking the bank. I got a Ruger Redhawk for a grand, and while a grand is certainly a lot of money if you ask me a Redhawk is worth more than that. With my experience with Ruger, you pay good money but their products aren't outrageously priced like Kimber or particularly Wilson Combat. So with Ruger you get what you pay for and more. I also got a Remington 700 for much lower than what I would've ordinarily had to pay for it since it had been used as a demonstration rifle to promote the product and thus was considered used. Although it was still quite new, it had only been used for display and if it had been fired only once or twice so you could still call it a new gun but since it was considered used I payed a used price for it. And as people here have said, don't fall into the trap of thinking that if you're paying a high price you're getting something good. I know a few things about sales. There's the technique called "foaming the top" where you increase sales by actually bringing up the price. The idea is that people think if they pay lots of money they're getting something good. "Its expensive so its got to be good," is a common train of thought in our world, and people can be taken advantage of by that.

And as for a good wife, if she's marrying you for money than in my opinion she is marrying you for the wrong reason and is not a good wife.

 

[Mauser69]

If your guns are rusting, you need to learn a LOT more about firearm maintenance and storage. Until you do, I would suggest that spending more than $10 on another gun would be quite unwise.

 

[Photon Guy]

If your guns are rusting, you need to learn a LOT more about firearm maintenance and storage. Until you do, I would suggest that spending more than $10 on another gun would be quite unwise.

My Smith & Wesson that I've had for over 17 years now does not and never has had any rust whatsoever. My Rugers never had any rust and neither has my Marlin or even my Hawk 12 Gauge which is a cheap gun that I wouldn't buy but in this case it was given to me. The only guns that I've had rust problems with are the Remingtons and while as of now I am storing my guns much better, I've got a much better safe and I've got a mini dehumidifier in the safe and I've even got a full size dehumidifier constantly running in the room where the safe is but even before that when I didn't have the good safe and the dehumidifiers the only guns that rusted were the Remingtons.

 

[603Country]

In another post, you attached a picture of a rifle you had paid $7000 for, if I remember correctly. Why'd you spend that kind of money on a rifle and then start a chat like this one.

I put the trophy wife comment in the earlier post mostly for humor. As for rifles, if you are talking Ruger, Remington, and a few others, you are totally missing my point on buying the 'good stuff'. Get a first class action, barrel, stock, trigger, and gunsmith and have a rifle made to your exacting accuracy specifications and see what the cost will run. Not cheap.

 

[SSA]

That's what this guy who worked at a gun shop told me

I knew it.

 

[Photon Guy]

In another post, you attached a picture of a rifle you had paid $7000 for, if I remember correctly. Why'd you spend that kind of money on a rifle and then start a chat like this one.

Why not?