So how to convince my police chief not to restrict my LTC-A

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SteelJM1

New member
I had high hopes that this small town in Massachusetts was rural enough (2 part time police officers. Seriously) that the police chief would be pretty leinient about CCW. I was wrong.

When I put in my application at the police station, the secretary lady took my fingerprints, information, yadda yadda, and when looking over the 'purposes' where i had written "all lawful purposes' she goes "oh.. well, the chief here is pretty strict on concealed carry. He doesn't really hand them out."

<sigh> This stupid state really has to get its stupid laws in order. The fact taht i could move 1 town over and carry concealed no problem, but here I am being restricted is downright silly.

Anyway, I decided that I'm going to talk to the chief and and ask him why he is so strict on him and see if I can convince him to let me carry. This won't be easy considering I'm 22 years old, and us young bucks tend to have an irresponsible image. But here I am, clean cut (mostly) going to school, bright kid with no history so I'm hoping I might have a shot.

But anyway, I was thinking that if he actually gave me time to talk, my arguments would be first that the fact that being granted your LTC-A one has to pass certain requirements. It's not fair then if I pass the same requirements to get my permit restricted while other people can carry. Another thing i would bring up would be, (or if he asks) Am i planning on shooting anyone? Of course not. But people have life insurance polices, are they planning on dying anytime soon? The whole "Better to have and not need than vide versa" argument. Finally, though I realize it IS a "shall issue" state, I really feel it's my right to carry if I want, and since I don't wear my pants around my knees and my hat sideways and sport a 'tougher than thou' attitude (Or on the flip side of the coin, drive rusty 85 camaro with a john deere hat and a flannel shirt that smells slightly of budweiser), one can reasonably assume that I dont have an ulterior motive to carrying. I'm just a normal guy that feels i have the right to protect myself how i see fit, within the bounds of the law, and the law says i CAN carry.

So you guys have any other suggestions to add to my argument? Obviously stuff that's not really too far off the wall because it won't help me if I sound like a nutcase going off into a rant.

Thanks for any help and wish me luck!
 
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Travismaine

New member
Move to a free state. I took my daughter the day after her 18th birthday to the town office got the paperwork filled it out handed it to the local LE. Three weeks later she had permit in hand.

ANY state that would not allow a citizen to defend themselves is in violation of the 2nd amendment.
 
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pipoman

New member
You say it is a "shall issue" state. What restrictions can he lawfully put on your license? How long do the restrictions last?

If he can legally restrict your license and your town is as small as you describe it. I think you should ask him if he will go to the range with you and critique your shooting and give you pointers. This would go a very long way toward getting the restrictions lifted in the future and you may find him very helpful and a great shooting friend.
 
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ATW525

New member
As your stuck with where you are. Clothes make the man, wear a suit to meet the CLEO.
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+1

I'd get a haircut before hand, too, to make sure you're looking your very best. Impression is everything.
 
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pipoman

New member
If this town is anything like most of the 2 part time cop towns around here, the Chief already knows Steel, knows his family, knows his grades in school, knows every date he has ever had, every party he has ever attended and gas bubble he has ever passed. He's done made his impression on the chief I would guess.
lticaptd.gif
 
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The Pilgrim

New member
It was almost exactly the same way for me. I handed in my paperwork and when the secretary saw "All Lawful Purposes" she said I wouldn't get it since I was 23 and my first time applying. I hope to be in a different state by the time my renewal comes up.
 
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allenomics

New member
Yes, dress well and bring any firearms class certificates that you may have received. And be sure to ask the LEO about the agency's "citizen on patrol" or community policing (or whatever it's called) volunteer program.
 
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SteelJM1

New member
Pipoman: Haha. Truth is, I've only been living in this town for the past two years and I haven't even met the chief yet, so. Yeah I plan on wearing my nice clothes, and moving out of this state once I'm done with school. Good idea with the range though.
 
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Travismaine

New member
WOW you guys are way missing the point. What he dresses like or his hair should not be an issue. He has a RIGHT to get the permit. If by some god forsaken reason I was banished to a state like this and was told I could not have a permit I would ask for the denial reason in writing then take it to the court.
 
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ATW525

New member
WOW you guys are way missing the point. What he dresses like or his hair should not be an issue. He has a RIGHT to get the permit. If by some god forsaken reason I was banished to a state like this and was told I could not have a permit I would ask for the denial reason in writing then take it to the court.
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You are the one who is way missing the point. That's the way things work in Massachusetts. It's a may issue state and the CLEO is God when it comes to handing out LTCs. Making a good impression on the CLEO will get you further than trying to fight the system in an extremely left leaning state. There's no right to a permit in Massachusetts, and possession of a handgun without one is rewarded with a mandatory year in the slammer.
 
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swk314

New member
Steel,

I grew up in Boston, so I know first hand how hard it can be to get a permit. I went to the Boston police department and asked for an application. The guy started laughing at me. The best thing you could probably do is tell them they will be speaking to your attorney. It's true that most towns in Mass will not accept the one liner "All Lawful Purposes" reasons for wanting a permit. You have to go into detail, usually a one page letter explaining why you want to carry concealed. Try to avoid a general fear of crime (as police will take it to mean that they are not doing their job). Also if you have training into deadly force issues include it. The last thing a police department wants to do is give an idiot a permit to carry and they go out shooting people for dumb things such as arguments (not saying you will). Dress appropriately, shave, and present a thorough argument as to why you want to carry concealed. Look at packing.org's website. At the bottom of the page their is a list of the municipalities in Massachusetts, and the difficulty in getting a permit.

Also, Darius Arbabi is a well known firearms lawyer in Mass. He may be able to give you tips on the application process, and how to handle your Chief if he refuses to grant you a unrestricted permit. I'm sorry that they are putting you through this, but you may need an attorney in this.
 
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pipoman

New member
Has the selective nature of the law been challenged under the "equal protection" clause or discrimination? I mean I could understand if there were criteria for acceptance or denial, but I don't understand how they can defend the subjective nature of the selection process.
 
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gvf

Moderator
Permit

I just got mine in NY State for "business carry". Nine months from date of application. New York is a "May Issue" state far as I know, so it may be different, but is sounds for all practical purposes like your situation is the same no matter what your state says.

In New York, if you can tie a need to carry with a business practice you may have, even if not your main career (has to be a an actual business though not a hobby) it is easier than getting an unrestricted carry, at least in my county (in NY counties interpret and execute state law according to their own criteria).

So, I don't know if you have any such business interests, or activites performed for your employer that would place you in danger (that's also reason to have a business-carry, if your employer substantiates the need), but thought I'd mention it.
 
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Travismaine

New member
You are the one who is way missing the point. That's the way things work in Massachusetts. It's a may issue state and the CLEO is God when it comes to handing out LTCs. Making a good impression on the CLEO will get you further than trying to fight the system in an extremely left leaning state.
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Basing weather or not a person gets a permit based on how he/ she looks is wrong! That is why I would request the reason I was denied in writing.
 
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SteelJM1

New member
Yeah sure its wrong, but its also the reality of the situation.

I have to apologize though, in my first post i said that this state was "shall" issue when I meant "may". My fingers and brain had a bit of a communication breakdown.

The point of asking him to put it in writing if he continues to deny me is a good one. That will probably let him know that im serious. I think that MOST people that get denied their CCW from this guy have a fit at first then never do anything about it, or just simply never follow up. I think (hope) that consistent pressure well help me out.

swk: thanks for the info, i might look into that attorney if this continues to be a problem. Hey who knows, maybe this will be a major case and you guys will be seeing me in the news "The Commonwealth of Massachusetts vs. Steel".

To add, I'm looking into the open carry laws of this state. I'm going to look up a rumor that open carry is not exactly illegal here, just very frowned upon. If that's true, I might be able to use that to my advantage. I don't want to make a threat out of it, but i'll give him something to consider. "Well, sir, if i'm not granted my concealed permits, you will be forcing me to have to carry open." Or maybe i'll save that for after the fact so that he doesnt try to use it as an excuse to completely deny my LTC. I think i'll need to talk to that attorney about that one.

Ah well, just a couple more days until I meet with the chief, keep those good idea flowing, and thanks again guys.
 
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pipoman

New member
swk: thanks for the info, i might look into that attorney if this continues to be a problem. Hey who knows, maybe this will be a major case and you guys will be seeing me in the news "The Commonwealth of Massachusetts vs. Steel".
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It ain't that important (to get arrested for). Now maybe Steel vs.The Commonwealth of Massachusetts would be worthwhile. ;)
 
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SteelJM1

New member
Isn't it? If rights and such keep getting whittled away and nobody tries to fight it, then they're going to disappear, i can assure that.
 
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The Pilgrim

New member
Open carry is not legal anywhere in MA unless you are hunting. You can appeal if your license is denied outright, but I don't know how it would work if you were just contesting the restrictions. I think there is only a 90 day window for appeals, too, as I found out long after the fact.
 
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