Snub Decision: .38SPL vs. .410

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seeker_two

New member
I'm getting an itch to buy a snub revolver. At first, I'd planned to get one chambered in .38SPL...leaning toward a LCR or S&W or Charter Arms "hammerless airweights". But then Taurus came out with the Public Defender in .410 shotshell....and the decision got harder. Since this will be a gun that will be expected to do triple-duty (CCW, truck-cab pistol, and anti-snake gun), the extra payload in a .410 shell looks appealing. That, and the stats for Brenneke .410 slug loads (similar to .38SPL+P loads), just put the PD in the running.

So, what do YOU, the audience at home, think? Stick with the .38?....or take the .410 plunge?


Thanks in advance..... :D
 
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6onthehip

New member
re

i'd get both - the guns your talking about can be had at some pretty good prices - the 410 is unique and would be cool to have but i would rely on the .38 also
 
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30-30remchester

New member
Check out the site "box of truth" he has shot the taurus 410 with #8 shot, triple aught buck, 410 slugs and 45 Colt ammo. He used various penatration tests and the 410 birdshot has trouble penatrating 1/2" drywall, the 3 aught buck went through just a few pieces of drywall, the 410 slugs penatrated 6 pieces of drywall if I remember correctly. The 45 Colt penatrated 10 pieces of drywall and went whizzing off across the prairie. The conclusion I came to was that for self defence the 410 was next to worthless.
 
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Locoweed

New member
I don't recall drywall being a standard test medium for penetration tests of firearms. At any rate, the guy is probably not going to use it to shoot much drywall as he is more interested in self-defense against people and snakes. Every time the Judge comes up someone quotes The Bucket of Truth as if it's the Holy Grail of all handgun testing.
 
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Tom Servo

Staff
I have some very real concerns with the Judge as a gun. One of those is dependability. I've personally seen two fail, one of which was on the second round fired.

For the money you'd drop on one, you can get a Ruger SP101 or a good used S&W. It'll be an excellent self-defense gun, and .38 shot shells will work just fine on snakes.
 
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45_Shooter

New member
You're talking two completely different animals here:

A .38 snub is a small, light gun designed around getting the most power-to-weight possible. The only knocks most people have on a quality snub (Colt, S&W, Ruger) are it's capacity, reload speed, and sometimes recoil. Reliability, power, and size are on their side which are why many prefer them for CCW uses. You can buy .38 shot loads if snakes are a concern as you state.

The Taurus Judge is a monster of a pistol, which is either a good snake/woods gun or a marginal and oversized, overweight defensive tool. QC on many Taurus products can be an issue as well.

The .410 shot spreads rapidly in an irregular, holey pattern, while producing modest power due to the short barrel.

.410 slugs also suffer from low power, and typically have lighter bullets than .38's with similar energy (but larger diameter). Basically they likely will penetrate less and perform worse than a .38+P, which is long considered the minimum for self defense.

.45 LC is a known good performer with good power and a large heavy bullet, but in the Judge it is not very accurate. This is due to the very long 2.5-3" chamber that the bullet bounces down before engaging the barrel.

To me it would be no contest in the .38's favor unless I was looking exclusively for a small game / snake pistol. The Judge is likely a fun toy and well suited to certain roles, but I think you can do better for self defense.
 
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azredhawk44

Moderator
45_shooter gave you an excellent answer.

.38 shotshells are available for .38/.357 revolvers. They kill snakes just fine. So do plain-old-bullets if you actually learn to shoot.:rolleyes:

How many .410 shotguns do people have under their beds for home defense? Then why on earth is a .410 handgun (with a shorter barrel and less burn time) somehow suitable?

The .38 is more concealable, more reliable, and more flexible for every use you would put it to than the Judge. Including snake-killin.
 
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30-30remchester

New member
LOCOWEED, you make a good point that drywall may not be the standard for ballistics testing, and that drywall wont be attacking you in the dark. However it does give a "constant" even medium to test different bullets. So far ballistics geletin is far too expensive for the average shooter. The point I was trying to make is that a gun incapable of penatrating something as soft as drywall is sure not a capable defense load. I know a few people who believe they have a bear killer in a 410 Judge, little do they realise that a 45 Colt will far excede anything from the 410.
 
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Pezo

New member
The .38 special has been a choice of defense revolver carry for years. It's a very popular self-defense round. The .410 seems like a novelty at best. I think you would be essentially carrying an over sized .45 colt. The .410 could be a dedicated snake gun or something fun to shoot claeys with.:rolleyes:
 
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Doc Intrepid

New member
Bottom line is that a S&W J-frame can be carried nearly invisibly in the front pocket of a set of khakis, shorts, or under a shirt or light jacket. Its the one you'll have with you on a daily basis.

The Judge, whatever else it might be, is NOT what you'd call "easy to conceal". Sure, you can conceal it - and you can conceal a Desert Eagle also. But it isn't as easy to conceal as something the size of a .38 (IMHO).

I'd agree with the guys above who recommend for a more universal handgun, go with the .38 Spl. If you're concerned about snakes, use snakeshot shells.
 
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natman

New member
The Judge is a good 45 Colt spoiled by a marketing gimmick. Oversized, overweight and driven by a fantasy of the "shotgun" power it doesn't actually have.

If you want a concealable revolver, get the 38.

If you want a carry revolver get a good 45 Colt. Use 45 Colt shotshells for snakes and bullets for defense.
 
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dussandr

New member
Get the .38, and forget the .410. A .45 LC is preferable to a .410 slug. The only load that makes sense for SD in the Judge is buckshot, and NOT 000 buck. I'm talking about #4 or #1 buck. Birdshot is for little birds, slugs aren't as good as 45LC, but the smaller buckshot would be okay for SD.

A .38 loaded with modern hollowpoints will serve you well in SD. And there's plenty of rat-shot loads for them too.

Add in the bulk of the Judge series vs a good J-frame and I think the .38 wins, hands down.
 
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Nasty

New member
It's all been said above...the .38 for real life, the taurus for a range *toy* only.
orically interesting


ps: Nothing wrong with having range *toys*...I have a Nagant myself just because it's historically interesting (which the taurus will *never* be) and fun to plink with. It's also a hoot to see new shooters try to hit anything with it in double action.
 
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EdInk

New member
.38spcl gets my vote.

I've always felt that if a person is only going to own one handgun,
it is hard to beat a .38 revolver, especially a snubbie for versatility.
 
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