Snipers, silencers, sub-sonic, and sabots

John/az2

New member
I saw "Patriot Games" with Harrison Ford a while back and I was thinking about the sniper the other day.

In the training he was using a silencer and sub-sonic ammo. Now, I know this is Hollywood producing this film, but I am curious about just how frequently a legitimate sniper would use a silencer, sub-sonic ammo, and/or sabotted ammo. (I understand that you don't use sabots with a silencer).

I was also wondering about effective range with the above mentioned items.
 

Crimper-D

New member
Ask the Swedish Army!

I don't know about supressed sniper rifles in use by this country, but they employ a saboted Tungsten bullet of about 4.5mm in a 30cal (7.62 Nato) case for use in their sniper rifles.
I know the Isralis have employed supressed .22's in urban sniping situations, I beleive they were supressed 10-22's.
 

AllenTC2

New member
Not an authoritative answer but.....

I've seen several suppressed sniper rifles (in books, magazines, etc.). According to most of the articles, the sub-sonic ammo and baffles in the suppressors bleed off a LOT of velocity, making them useful only in short range (read MOUT) environments.
 

ctdonath

New member
Depends on the sniper's task, and how useful it is to remain unnoticed.

As noted above, Israeli forces use suppressed .22s for crowd control. This permits police to disable instigators without alarming the crowd - a guy in front just falls with a sharp pain in his leg, and few really notice anything other than less mob leadership. Carefully used, this is relatively non-lethal and calms the crowd.

Sub-sonic loads have the problem of shorter ranges. Since the bullet is travelling under 1000 fps, gravity does its thing and the bullet seems to fall faster, thus limiting its range. 100-yard performance is comparable to 500-yard standard (supersonic) performance.

Sub-sonic rounds have the advantage of being distinctly quieter, as they do not create the sonic "crack" caused by something moving faster than sound. Word is a subsonic .308 sounds like a .22 short being fired. Practically all the noise is limited to the muzzle blast, and even that can be tuned to drop off (but at the expense of bullet velocity).

If the target is rather close (under 150 yards) subsonic loads can do the job without much distracting noise; this is good for those of us who want a quiet shot but live in a no-suppressors state (like NY).

Using a silencer with a subsonic load can be very quiet indeed. Word is about all you hear is the firing pin drop and (if semiauto) the action cycle. Unfortunately, as subsonic loads are being used, distance is rather limited.

Using a silencer on supersonic loads has nifty effects. You get the standard distance (reach out and touch someone a thousand yards away), and with no muzzle blast the only sound is from the sonic crack...which is generated along the whole path of the bullet, and when the sound reflects off objects (walls, etc.) it is very hard to tell where the shot came from, despite the obvious fact that a shot occured. If you're shooting into a group, they know someone is shooting but are very confused about from where. Also, silencers tend to stabilize the barrel and the emergence of the bullet, thus improving accuracy a significant amount. One might use a suppressor just to improve accuracy.

Sabots may be used to fire bullets faster than normal, kicking a lighter bullet with the same force. .50BMG shooters use .30 caliber sabots to fire rounds at 4-5000 fps (very fast - any faster and bullets tend to disintegrate from the centrifigal force). This speed provides a flatter trajectory.

IIRC, firing sabots thru a silencer is a bad idea. The plastic holder falls off upon exiting the muzzle, and would tend to get caught inside the silencer and make a mess.

FWIW: silencers are tightly regulated, requiring BATF approval (fingerprints, local chief LEO signoff, background check), registration, and a $200 tax. Unlike machineguns or AOWs which require the BATF for permission to move or even take it out of state, the location of a silencer need not be constantly recorded. Note also that many states forbid silencers completely, and most that don't do prohibit their use in hunting.
 

Schmit

Staff Alumnus
Exactly what CT said about suppression a supersonic projectial.

With a suppressor the muzzle blast/noice is almost elimated. All that you hear is the sonic crack from the bullet.

Keep in mind that a sonic crack travels out 90 degrees from the bullet path. You won't hear one until the bullet passes you (that is if the shooter misses ;) ). If the shot sounds like it came from in front of you your very badly wrong. If it sounds like that it came from the right or left and you stand a 50/50 chance of guessing which... that is unless you see the bullet strike.

Even with the bullet strike you know which direction it came from but...... how far out that way do you look and exactly at what angle.. (i.e. 90, 80, 100.... 110? 75? degrees... we are talking alot of area here, keeping in mind the shooter has you in his sights). Makes for a very difficult target acquisition. :D

Two other things a suppressor does in addition to suppression the muzzle signature, it decreases the muzzle blast (lets movement of surrounding vegitation) and it eliminates the Flash (great for working at night with NV).

Aaaaaa Suppressors... can't see why they are so heavily regulated.
 

Tamara

Moderator Emeritus
If I wind up getting a can for my .300 Whisper Turkish Mauser project, I'll let y'all know how it works out. ;)
 
Z

Zitadel

Guest
I like to use silencers in all my guns. They come especially handy when target practising with halfloads. The recoil is next to nothing. And the sound is reduced so the bystanders dont have to use hearing protection.

I use it while hunting also. It's really handy when hunting with lots of people (moose hunting). And it is better for the dogs ears if I have to shoot the mercy shot? ( What is the correct term in english):confused:. Me and my brother have silencers for all of our rifles (Tikka .308, Sako TRG-S .30-06 and G3). The prices vary (around 100-130$ installed by gunsmith and ready to go).

The sound of subsonic round with silencer is like someone cracked a small stick of wood in half. I doubt that someone not knowing what to listen could connect it to being a gunshot.
 
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