Smith & Wesson Collector's Market - Does It Keep Going Higher?

[Joe_Pike]

I know this is a nearly impossible question to answer because collector's are fickle and the market could change overnight, but what is your opinion on where the prices of older S&W revolvers are going. The older S&W guns seem to have gone up as the Colt market went up (although, not nearly as much). The Colt market seems to have leveled off and has stayed out of the reach of most people looking for some of those old guns helping drive the S&W market (and to some degree the older Ruger market).

So does anyone think that older S&W revolvers will continue to steadily rise in the near term and get to the level that Colt is at now or does that take a few decades?

 

[RIDE-RED 350r]

My novice opinion: I don't think that most models will reach Colt DA prices. I think the main driving force behind the high prices of Colt DA's is the fact that they are discontinued.... S&W still makes a ton of DA revolvers. Yes there are certain old models that demand a pretty hefty premium, but by and large I think that as long as S&W continues to make them, you won't see the stratospheric prices like the Colt DA revolvers bring.

 

[upstate81]

I believe the pinned and recessed models especially will continue to rise in price. Then you have the hammer mounted firing pin no lock guns which also bring a little more money. More often than not a used no lock gun will bring the same money as a new model with a lock. I see that a lot with models like the 686. I guess it depends a lot on model and barrel length that will drive the market. All i know is that over the past 3 or 4 years i have seen prices beginning to climb higher and higher. Some shops around here see older smiths as museum pieces quite often.

 

[Obambulate]

I think a slow and steady rise in prices is likely. They are true wonders of 20th century craftsmanship.

 

[FITASC]

Some are, some not so much; but the perception is that the quality is there. It all comes down to which models and which time frame. Smiths from the 20s-30s and 50s-60s should have the best increase in value.

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy

I am a collector of S&W revolvers. Not really too sure what you mean by 'fickle' but I'm pretty sure I don't like it. Among serious S&W collectors (I am just barely one of those), there is nothing fickle about their interests. Most know exactly what they want and exactly how much they are willing to pay. Every one of us is always on the lookout for a bargain. It may be just a shooter grade, it may be a very high grade antique. But there is nothing fickle about the S&W collector market, or any other serious firearm collectors market either.

Just exactly what do you mean by 'older'? My oldest S&W revolver was made in 1863. I have at least one, sometimes many, from every decade since.

Price depends on the specific model, the age, and the condition. Some models are more sought after than others. Some are not.

Nothing I collect is currently in production, so that lets out anything with a lock or MIM parts. Pinned and recessed, of course. But that takes in a whole lot of territory, to say nothing of the Tip Ups and Top Breaks.

But yes, the price of S&W revolvers is still going up, and I suspect it will continue to go up. Used to be you could find a nice K frame Model 10 for under $200. Those days are gone, these days the same Model 10 is likely to be priced at $450 - $500. Sometimes you get lucky. I picked up a terrific, like brand-spanky new Model 14 from 1974 a couple of years ago for $500. That was a bargain. By the same token, I was at an auction the other day and I was bidding on a spotless K-38. I would have been happy to pay $700 for it. I finally dropped out of the bidding when it reached $1200. Pretty as it was, I already have 2 of them and just couldn't see spending $1200 on a third. Even though it was much nicer than my other 2.

 

[BigJimP]

Yes, I think the market will continue to grow on recessed and pinned guns - especially in .357 mag....like the model 27's especially -- and the model 19's...in both blued and nickel finishes - with a premium on nickel finish. The stainless guns 66's, 686's etc will grow more slowly...but there will be a few high demand guns in those models too.../ right now in my area 686's in barrel lengths up to 4" are probably up 40% just in the last 12 months....

Barrel lengths will fluctuate in popularity ..with 2" - 4" getting a premium over 6" and 8 3/8" guns....and rarer guns like a 5" will still demand premiums.

But as generations change .....my young teenage grandkids, because of weapons in video games, don’t think revolvers are that cool - because in the games they are entry level guns..../ not sure what they will think as they get into their 20's and 30's and start their own collections...

I collect & shoot a lot of s&w's....in .22 / .357 mag / .44 mag..... and I do have a pair of the new performance center model 627's -- they're nice guns ( full of mim parts )....and i'm not sure what their value will be in 10 yrs...../ they are such a different look to them, I don't know how many are selling despite their higher capacity ( 8 shot )....

 

[lamarw]

I think Driftwood Johnson stated it very well and my limited experience seems to echo his view point.

S&W bringing back the classic line of revolvers seems to of boosted the older revolvers desirability. First it is bringing back "the look" of this timeless revolver. Then it is creating a market all over again of these timeless beauties. When buyers price the new ones, they find they can obtain the original for less or about the same price. Everyone raves about the pinned barrel, recessed cylinders, non-MIM parts, the beautiful finishes, and the screw count of the older guns. Whether they are better or not is debated, but there is the nostalgic demand for the old ones with many of the old features. Therefore, the market price is steadily rising for the originals.

There is no shortage of the very common S&W Model 10, but this Friday I considered myself lucky to acquire a new to me shooter grade 10-5 for $185.00. It does have some finish issues, but mechanically it is solid as they come.

 

[lifesizepotato]

I think the main driving force behind the high prices of Colt DA's is the fact that they are discontinued.... S&W still makes a ton of DA revolvers. Yes there are certain old models that demand a pretty hefty premium, but by and large I think that as long as S&W continues to make them, you won't see the stratospheric prices like the Colt DA revolvers bring.

In a technical sense, yeah, Smith and Wesson still make DA revolvers. But people paying big collector bucks for a Registered Magnum, for example, aren't just looking for a 357 with that S&W logo on the side.

Personally, I don't see values retreating. They may plateau, but coming back down doesn't seem likely. Collectible firearms have trended up the past few years across the board, incidentally mirroring the concurrent 80s/90s sports car boom, I think as part of an asset-based investment strategy.

 

[Master Blaster]

For the next 20 years most likely. As collectors age and eventually pass on collections will be sold. I don't see the 30 something folks having the same enthusiasm when they reach their 50s.

 

[Joe_Pike]

Not really too sure what you mean by 'fickle' but I'm pretty sure I don't like it.

Here's what I mean by fickle collectors....many people jump into a market because they see it going up and they want to go along for the ride and make a few bucks. Then something new comes along and they're off to the races with the new interest, always pursuing that dollar. Collectors are fickle.

Now compare that to an enthusiast. An enthusiast does collect certain items but they do it because they love and appreciate those said items, whether said items are firearms, paintings, cars, etc. They don't collect just to profit from their collection. If values move up, that's even better, but it is the love of the collected item that drives them. In my case, I can't really afford to buy older Smith & Wesson revolvers any longer because of the recent increases in prices. There were still several guns that I wanted to add to the cache but just can't swing it now. So, to me, the ever increasing collector market has pretty much squashed my enthusiasm due to lack of funds. Glad to have the few that I have, though.

 

[RIDE-RED 350r]

I hear what you are saying lifesizepotato and agree but want to clarify what I was saying.

Putting aside the Registered Magnums for a moment and their very small numbers produced (I just learned this in another thread here) because they bring big money due to their very limited numbers. I would assume there are significantly more Colt Pythons out there in good shape than RM's. But as I said before, the sole reason Colt snakes bring the money they do is specifically because they are non longer made. Will nice specimens of the early Smiths continue to bring a premium over more recent offerings??? Absolutely. Will they continue to gradually rise?? I believe they will. But aside from models of very limited production numbers, I don't see them bringing Python like prices for awhile yet. Last I was looking around and admittedly it has been a year or so, clean Pythons are bringing easily double the money a clean m27 does. If S&W announced the discontinuation of their entire DA revolver line tomorrow though, hang on to your shorts! I think something drastic would have to take place for the S&W market value to increase by 100% or more in a short amount of time. Other than that, I think a slow steady rise in value over time is what will happen. And I'll bet that as the S&W vintage market increases, the Colt snakes will increase in lock-step along with them...

I would bet that if Colt were still making snakes today, you would see a mirror image of what the current S&W market looks like in terms of "old vs new".

Either way, I haven't made a bad investment on an older S&W yet and it sure is interesting to watch.

 

[BigJimP]

Interesting point you make on "collectors" vs "enthusiasts"... I had never thought of it like that ....

but then I never understood a pure collector ...who just bought and put them away to let them appreciate and was buying and selling all the time.

I just knew I appreciated the older S&W's --- and wanted a few of them in various barrel lengths .. to enjoy and shoot. I had a N frame model 27-2 in a 4" Nickel at range yesterday afternoon - and put a couple of boxes thru it ( in and out of a holster )...along with the newer model 627-5 ( N frame, 8 shot ) perf center gun in 2 5/8" barrel...and while I like them both, there is just nothing like the feel, weight, trigger and fit and finish on the model 27-2 4" Nickel. It doesn't make the model 627's a bad gun ...( its just more of a tool to me, where I cherish the older guns )...but no matter what, I have a great time with both...even though my reload speeds with both of them are like watching paint dry.../ so I worked out my 1911 in 9mm for awhile too.

 

[Reloadron]

While I am not a collector of S&W revolvers I guess we could say I am an enthusiast of well made revolvers. That has resulted in a collection of not just S&W but also some Colt revolvers. They have all. over the years appreciated in their value. I am always looking for that bargain gun, neighbors and friends know I am an avid shooter and when families end up with guns as a result of a loved one passing away then send people my way.

I have to agree with Driftwood and have enjoyed reading what he has to say on some classic revolvers. I believe it may have been Driftwood who did an excellent thread on a S&W Model 17 and a Model 617.

Overall yes, the past few years have seen an increase in cost of not just classic S&W revolvers but the Colt guns as well and the $200 Model 10 has become very scarce or about extinct.

Ron

 

[Sequins]

I think we're having a confusion of terms here...

Collector: Someone who enjoys acquiring something in their vein of interest, like Smith & Wesson revolvers. They collect because they like having a lot of the the thing they like, or a specific vintage of the thing they like, or what have you (some people collect specific colors of a thing, etc). Collectors are never fickle that's the nature of collecting...

Enthusiast: They like the thing. They might only own one or two of the thing but they love it. This is perhaps the same as a Hobbyist, or perhaps we could draw a distinction and a Hobbyist would be a higher level up. An enthusiast likes to waterski every chance he gets, a hobbyist works on waterskis and has a couple of his own. Enthusiasts might be fickle and they might jump from thing to thing, never sticking something long enough to achieve hobbyist status, or they might not be fickle and they know what they are enthused by. A hobbyist is never fickle for the same reasons as the collector, if you are fickle you never rise beyond the level of enthusiast.

Speculator: This is someone who buys a thing to later resell at a higher price. He may have no lover of the thing whatsoever, he is just chasing a buck. Speculators are fickle for sure!

Thanks for indulging my petty pedantry folks

 

[old bear]

I think a slow and steady rise in prices is likely. They are true wonders of 20th century craftsmanship.

This^^^. As soon as the investors/speculators slow down buying every quality S&W product they can get their hands on prices should level off.
I also believe that high dollar firearms are an iffy investment at best: they have a limited resale market. The seller must find someone who wants to buy the handgun, can afford to purchase the handgun, and is WILLING to pay or pay close to the asking price. So quick liquidity is not always an option, and collector’s trends are often fickle.
My personal take on buying handguns is simple. Buy what I want, can afford to buy, and enjoy using them as intended.

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy Again

I am a card carrying member of the Smith and Wesson Collectors Association, so I might have a bit of insight into what makes a collector.

Here is the dictionary definition of a collector:

A person who collects things of a specified type, professionally or as a hobby.

I can tell you that very few S&W collectors I know are speculators. The only ones who are speculators are dealers. Looking for a fast turn around on their investment. Very few of those.

The great majority of S&W collectors I know simply love the design of S&W revolvers. They are intrigued by the history and evolution of the designs.

Many specialize, I know one guy who only collects Single Shots. I know another guy who specializes in police guns. Some specialize in antiques, usually Top Breaks.

Most of the members of the SWCA that I know do shoot some of their revolvers, I know I do. Yes, I have a few antiques that I do not shoot, mainly because the rimfire ammunition they were made for is no longer available. Yes, I do have boxes of antique rimfire ammo, (funny how collecting ammo goes hand in had with collecting guns), but somehow I can't bring myself to shoot those 150 year old revolvers. But the great majority of my Smiths are from the Five Screw days, 1905-1957. Those are what intrigues me the most.

I also have antique Winchester rifles that I shoot.

As for the prices, for long term investments, you are better off investing in the stock market than investing in guns. Most collectors know that. I simply love to handle and shoot revolvers and other firearms that were made a long time ago.

P.S. Yes, I was the author of the thread on The High Road detailing the differences between a Model 17-3 made in 1975 and a Model 617 with MIM parts.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=769929

 

[Ozzieman]

I believe the pinned and recessed models especially will continue to rise in price.

I totally agree with that assessment. Lets face it old S&W's in great shape are becoming harder to find every year. Why, for one thing people don't want to let them go. I have N frames that I have had for over 30 years and I wont let them go for twice there value. Why? You cant replace them.
Almost all of mine are in mint or close to mint condition and pined barrels.
I paid 300$ in the early 80's for a 4 inch 25 in 45 colt. It has been fired but its in excellent condition with no marks or bluing wear and the wood display box.
What will one go for today? Or when have you seen one last?

 

[Deaf Smith]

Driftwood is right. Sure I have a bunch of S&W revolvers. Had many of them for quite some time.

I don't buy & sell or even trade. If I happen to see an old S&W for a very good price I buy 'em cause I just love the old things. Maybe if I'm real hard up for cash I might part with them, but that's about the only way I'll sell.

Now and then I'll take a few with me to the range just to remind myself they used to make them without fancy CNC machinery. Make 'em, and make 'em VERY well..

Deaf

 

[hemiram]

I think they will continue to increase in price. I have several I would like to buy, and they are all pretty close to what a new one would cost, but I'm not interested in a new one. I want the old ones with no lock, pinned barrel, etc. The new ones aren't bad I just don't care about them.