Smith 625 45colt questions

M

MedicatedOne

New member
Howdy,
Will a Smith 625 stand up to the hotter 45colt loads that Corbon makes?
Are the chamber walls thick enough to handle those hot beasties?
I like the feel of the gun in 45colt and 44mag, but would I be better off with the 629 since I want to use the hotter loads that I so enjoy?
Thanks in advance. :)
 
R

riddleofsteel

New member
The frame of the current 625 series is essentially the same as the 629. It will handle the pressure of even +p .45 Colt loads. Keep in mind that many of the HOT .45 Colt loads going around today are designed for guns like the Redhawk, Blackhawk and T/C Contender only.
The older 25/625's like the older 29/629's will not blow up but will shoot lose on a steady diet of hot loads. S&W made badly needed improvements on the 629 series a number of years ago and my modern 629 Classic has gobbled up enough red hot .44 Magnum handloads to have shaken apart one of the older 29 series guns and is still tight as a drum. I would expect the newer 625's to give similar service.
At any rate a call to the S&W service dept. or the ammo manufacturer should help clear up any confusion on what and what not to stoke your 625 with.
 
W

WESHOOT2

New member
SAFETY FIRST

If you want to shoot non-SAAMI 45 Colt you need a Redhawk.

If you want to shoot 20 fairly-hot rounds over the life of the gun the S&W is fine.
It is NOT designed to withstand a steady diet of warm-to-hot ammo.

Get the Redhawk; you'll be much more satisfied. They offer 5.5" and 7.5" tubes.

300g XTP-HP / 1300fps............
 
J

Johnny Guest

Moderator in Memoriam
The 625 Mountain Gun is a GREAT revolver - - -

for carry afield--It was designed with the lighter barrel, etc, to be more comfortable to carry. It will last indefinitely with standard and warmish loads, and will handle hot loads on an occasional basis. But it IS a lighter gun.

If you want to shoot a regular diet of moose-harvester handgun loads, you probably would be more satisfied with a Redhawk or Blackhawk, or a .454 Casull.

I wouldn't take for my Mountain Gun, but I won't abuse it. If I feel the need of more than a 260/900 fps load, I have a .44 Magnum SBKH.

Best,
Johnny
 
S

screamnc

New member
I would not use the heavy cor-bon loadings in the 625. Only the 44 magnum got the bolt block in the action as part of the endurance package when Smith revamped the internals. The 625 is a fine gun, too fine to shoot loose in my opinion, If you want to shoot heavy loaded 45's get a Redhawk or blackhawk, & stay away from the heavy's for the fine Smith. You could also call Cor-bon as they are fine people who will shoot straight with you.
 
J

Johnny Guest

Moderator in Memoriam
ViLLain - - - The FRAME is not weak, no - - -

It is a tribute to the original design that the basic frame has held up as well as it has, over the decades. The only N-frame I ever saw have a disastrous failure was a 1917, with what turned out to be a double charge of Bullseye. Top third of cylinder went away and seriously injured a friend of mine, and the frame top was badly bowed.

And, with only minor strengthening, the same basic frame has held up to .357 mag. But, a steady diet of extremely heavy .44 mag or .45 Colt WILL loosen up the internals. (I have too little experience with .41 mag to own a valid opinion. :)) Few who have done any study of the mechanism will aver that the revolver will "blow up" under heavy use-- but there's no use in shaking the poor gun to pieces.

Best,
Johnny
 
M

MedicatedOne

New member
Thanks for all the info. :D
I don't doubt the frame, but I heard one time that the cylinder walls couldn't handle the pressures, because they are thinner due to the cartridge being larger. True it is only about .025 difference, but that was what I recall hearing.
It sounds like I got some bad info, but I am sure you guys can set me straight. ;)
 
V

ViLLain

New member
Johnny,

I agree with the parts issue. Although those small parts is what makes the triggers so sweet, heavy loads do pose a problem in less than one percent of N frame users and they're better off with the boat anchor. Would label the problem more as extensive wear rather than a weak gun. Weak implies a possible catastrophic failure of the gun. And those are almost unheard of in an N frame. In fact, don't think that there is a documented case where an N frame has had a catastrophic failure with a sub 32000 CUP 45 Colt load.

And screamnc, all the N frame received the enhancement in the early nineties. It was not just the M629.
 
W

WESHOOT2

New member
I DID NOT SAY 'WEAK'

As an ammo manufacturer I need to be at least slightly cognizant of what is possible (and safe, too).

The Smith can handle warmish loads, but a steady diet of TC/Ruger loads WILL send it in for service.

I prefer anchors..........their cylinders NEVER rotate the wrong way.
 
J

Johnny Guest

Moderator in Memoriam
Fer Pete's Sake - - -

ViLLain - - -

I dunno where you get onto this thing of telling everyone that the N-frame S&W IS NOT WEAK!!!!

You say, "Would label the problem more as extensive wear rather than a weak gun." You know, that is pretty much exactly what we, WESHOOT2 and I have been saying.

I've NEVER written that the N-frame is WEAK! I have probably referred to guns that are STRONGER, but that is a different matter. Out of my 1600-odd entries in the past 2-1/2 years, I would guess that over half have to do with handloads, and a majority of those deal with handguns. Now, when the SEARCH feature is restored, I invite you to check as many of my posts as you can tolerate reading. Cite a single instance contrary to the above statement and I'll enter a public apology AND kiss your - - whatever - - - on the courthouse steps. Shaking parts out of adjustment and ruining the timing of a revolver is NOT catastrophic failure. And this WILL happen to an N-frame sooner than to the heavier revolvers, given the same hot loads.

ViLL, you don't see fit to share any personal information on your member profile. Check that of WESHOOT2 and note: He is a federally licensed custom loader, offering his wares for sale to others. Go to his home site and see some of the precautions he takes. Notice that he's been a TFL contributor for practically three years, with nearly five thousand posts. My own TFL résumé is somewhat less distinguished, but I've owned and been shooting N-frame S&Ws since the mid-1960s. All this means is that we are not without background on the subject. Neither of us is showing disrespect for the fine old Smiths. Nor for you.:)

Best,
Johnny
 
R

riddleofsteel

New member
A steady diet of HOT .45 Colt loads will strain almost any gun to its limits. Even in my Blackhawk I use standard .45 Colt loadings 98% of the time. My own version of the 'Magnum" .45 Colt load is usually carried more than it is fired and mostly fired when there is meat on the end of the barrel.

If a modern 625 Smith is treated the same way it will probably outlast you.

One of the great things about the .45 Colt is that you do not have to "Magnumize" it for it to perform. Using hard cast lead SWC's at normal .45 colt pressures and velocities I have killed both deer and black bear with my Blackhawk. Trick is, stay under 50 yards and it will do well. The only reason I hot load at all in this caliber is to give me a margin of error or for that elusive 75 yard shot at that big buck I run across while fishing or hiking.
 
E

E357

New member
At 1300 FPS for a 300 gr. your pretty near 38-39000 PSI for a 45 caliber bullet. This will blow-up a 625 in short order. How do I know. My Gunsmith friend has done it twice in trying to make a 45 Win Mag Bowling Pin gun. It is not the FRAME that is the problem but the Cylinder - they always let go under the cut outs for the stop bolt. Most crazy bowling pin shooters will tell you to keep the pressure under 25000 when using those big hole (45) N frames.

Elliot
 
E

E357

New member
To be fair - I looked at the CorBon web page and I could not find a pressure listing for the 45 Colt Hunting rounds. They say not to use them in the "older" Smiths so I can only assume they tested the rounds in the "newer (25, 625s)" MAYBE??? They could be using some sloooow powder that doesn't get the pressure up, but it just seems funny. The cylinder walls on the Rugers and Dan Wesson's are MUCH thicker.

Elliot
 
R

riddleofsteel

New member
feel the bigger calibers (to a point and depending upon the application) are better as long as obtaining components and reloading for them is practical. I feel for certain the .44 Magnum and the .45 Colt are the two finest calibers in the country today. With the number of good guns chambered for both and the availability of components, not much else is needed except for those special applications. Even then the field is covered with fine revolvers in .454 Casull, and the .475 and .500 revolvers. I wouldn't hesitate a second to choose a good .45 Colt for my only sixgun for the rest of my days. From rabbits to Cape Buffalo, it has proven its worth. And the thing I like about the Colt is this: It does it so easy.

The loads listed in the accompanying tables are safe in ALL RUGER single action revolvers. The .45 Colt Ruger Blackhawk is approximately 85% as strong as the Ruger Super Blackhawk in .44Magnum caliber. Industry specs on the .44 Magnum is 40,000 psi maximum, NOT TO EXCEED 43, 500 ABSOLUTE MAXIMUM. The industry will stand behind their guns to this MAXIMUM pressure in factory loads. ( Most companies will not honor warranties if handloads are used.)

Lets give them the benefit of the doubt and hold our loads to 85% of the 40,000 level they prefer. This still allows us to use up to 34,000 class loads which is a safe working pressure in the Ruger .45 Colt. It is as safe as the .44 Magnums 40,000 psi Maximum recommended level. I have shot hundreds of proof-type loads in the Rugers in .45 caliber, even going as far as purposely destroying some cylinders with overloads. We know just how strong they are. They will take 34,000 psi for two lifetimes with little care. At this pressure level you are working with about a 100% safety factor. Sure, they will stand a little more, but I don't really care. A .45 Colt with honest 30,000/34,000 psi loads "in the gun" have about a 35% advantage over the best .44 Magnum loaded accordingly.

I want to make it clear here: This is not an "Anti-44 Magnum / Pro-45 Colt" article. I have simply tried to clear up some myths and rumors and set the ballistic record straight in this small area. If I could have had some .41 Magnum pressure data on hand it would have compared accordingly to the .44 Magnum just as the .44 compares to the .45 Colt. The load data used in this article has been used by myself for several years, and recommended to dozens of other shooters across this nation for a couple years now. All report good results and fine accuracy. If I show a prejudice toward the .45 Colt it is deserved and well-founded. I happen to like all sixgun cartridges above .40 caliber. I just like the .45 Colt the best.

Notes on the Smith & Wesson

The load data printed at the beginning of this article is considered MAXIMUM safe loads with listed bullets for RUGER BLACKHAWKS ONLY - (and, if you must shoot them, Contenders).

The Smith & Wesson Model 25-5 chambered for the .45 Colt is a fine gun and one I pack daily myself. The problem with the Smith &Wesson guns in general is not so much a strength factor but rather a design factor. Before you S&W people beat up on me please listen. It has long been evident that the Model 29 in .44 Magnum very quickly beats itself apart with full-power loads. This is not technically a "strength" problem as much as a design problem and the assemblage of several small parts that are not as rugged as the Single Action design. In the course of time if all the little parts wear a tiny bit this soon adds up to a lot of play in the overall fit and lock-up of the gun. This in turn allows the gun to get a further "run" at itself under discharge and thus hastens the battering process.

In reality the Model 25-5 is about 80% as strong as the Model 29 in the cylinder area. The frames are the same and are designed for a 40,000 psi load level even though we know this is a bit more than they are happy with. It's too bad S&W built a 40,00 psi cylinder and installed it in a 30,000 psi frame, so to speak. (note: since this writing S&W has worked on the problem of the cylinder unlatching and rolling back under recoil after it gets a bit worn) The 25-5 in .45 Colt is safe to 80% of the 40,000 psi of the .44 Magnum Model 29. This allows a load of 32,000 psi in this frame. I have shot hundreds of the 32,000 psi class loads listed at the beginning of this article in several Model 25-5's. Recoil is heavy due to the S&W "hump" on the grip, but I do not see these loads as being dangerous in this fine gun. I do consider 32,000 to be ABSOLUTE MAXIMUM for this gun and prefer to hold my personal loads to 5% under those listed loads for approximately 25,000 psi. I carry a S&W 4" in .45 Colt daily and shoot a 260 gr. Keith at 900 fps for general duty. When I saddle up and go into the hills I pack the same gun with a 310 gr. NEI Keith over 23 gr. H-110. This gives me about 1080 fps and all the punch I need for anything on our mountain. As with any gun and load data, work up carefully. I assume responsibility only for the ammo I myself assemble.

Best regards. John L.

John Linebaugh
 
T

TEXAS LAWMAN

New member
Mr. Linebaugh: I clicked the link under your name--the site does not seem to have any data, or even an option to open more pages--the planetary scenery is pretty, however.

I used to have some of your published data (.45Colt) bookmarked; however, when I changed ISPs, it disappeared. Can you advise me where the site is located?
 
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