Small-medium autos-opinions, please...

[gumshoe4]

Hello to all and thanks in advance for your help.

I'm looking for a small to medium sized auto for off-duty carry. I'm not crazy about Glocks and have been that route already (sorry Glock fans!).

Here's what I'm currently thinking about buying:

Kahr K9 or MK9
Sig P232 or P239 9mm
Beretta 84 or 85
Taurus PT111 9mm

This is not a final list and I'm willing to consider alternatives; however, the gun must be DAO or DA/SA, .380 or larger. I have several full-sized guns, so this is not supposed to be a big gun...I'm looking for something at or near the J-frame/G-26 envelope.

I'd like some input from folks who have actually owned the guns shown above or the guns they recommend. Specifically, I'd like to get an idea of the reliability and accuracy, how you carry the gun in a CCW mode, how the gun has survived while being used as intended and whatever other details you can provide.

Tamara and other 'smiths-do you have any experiences with any or all of these guns-good or bad?

Thanks again!!

 

[JB in SC]

I like the 239. I haven't owned all the others, but have owned the Kahr and the HK P7M8K3 (.380). The Sig, in my experience, is the most accurate. Easy to shoot, maybe a little bigger than you might want, but 100% reliable. It's a little top heavy (high bore axis), but is graced with a decent trigger and is fairly flat. Carried in some of Mitch Rosen's stuff, you can do no better.

 

[Patman]

I would also consider the Makarov. A real Makarov, not a clone.
Granted, the 9x18M isn't a 9mm Para, but it is a little more than a 380. I've found the little pistol ultra reliable, conceilable, very accurate, and it's such a simple design, it's rediculous!
I've got 10 of these lil' pistols, and love every one!

 

[gumshoe4]

Maks

Everything I've read about the Maks is extremely positive, but there is a problem. I reside in California. Maks have not been "safety-tested" and are therefore not available for sale by dealers, except those which are classified as C&Rs. Great suggestion, but not possible here in the goofball state.

 

[Dfariswheel]

I really like my Kahr K9 stainless. Accurate, reliable, safe, very high quality, and maybe the best DA trigger around.
I've carried mine in a IWB holster in the summer, and no rust. I usually carry it today in a fanny pack.

Size is about the same as a Walther PPK/s.
Their so good, some police agencies authorize them for off duty carry, or official back-up.

 

[Patman]

Too bad about the goofy Kalifornia laws.
I guess I'd go with the Kahr, then. I know a couple people who own 'em, and have shot both of 'em. One's a 9mm, the other's a 40. Both are reliable, but the gun's too light to be chambered in 40, IMHO.

 

[chrismc1]

Makarov Clone?

It was my understanding that a Makarov is a Makarov, only differences are the countries of manufacture and all parts are interchangeable between all countries who made the Makarov.

 

[Patman]

Right, chrismc. A PM is a PM. (however, EGs are finished nicer)
I'm talking about the FEGs, and PA63s, which, aren't actually clones of the Mak, but similar pistols. These are good pistols, but not as good as the original Makarov, regardless of country of manufacture, IMHO.

 

[Frenchy]

I carry a East German (C&R) Makarov as my off duty piece. With the right loads, I'm quite confidant with it's ability to do the job.

 

[croyance]

How about a Beretta Compact L, type M? A single column 8-rouind magazine based on the 92 frame? The controls are the same as a full sized 92. It is thinner and shorter. It makes a great gun.

I like the Kahr, although the long double action pull took me a little time to get used to. It is accurate enough. If you go this route, I would recommend you go to their website and get the smooth wood grips. They don't snag clothing, preventing printing, and are very comfortable.

 

[Onslaught]

I REALLY love the Kahrs. If you don't mind a "pinkie swinger", then the MK9 is the smallest (but not lightest) there is. Super dependable. The K9's great too, but heavy as well. I've also had GREAT luck with the MK40.

 

[Russ]

Gumshoe4,

I also live in Kalifornia. There are so many things we can't get right now. Too bad we have a commie legislature. I have an MK40. I Love it. It's just a hair larger than the MK9 and about 1oz heavier in the slide. These are very accurate and reliable guns. You can check out the specs on these at www.kahr.com There are also severl reviews by various gun magazines on their site also. I wanted a larger bore so I went with the 40. The 9 is very nice too.

Russ

 

[ctc]

gumshoe4,

With regard to your list I would look at the Kahr P series vs the K or MK series. Lighter weight, same general size and capacity. As for Beretta I would look at the Mini Cougar series (I have an 8040F) the are similar in size & weight to the mini Glock 26 & 27 and they are not Glocks

-- Chuck

 

[Herr Walther]

Makarov. You can't beat it for the price and reliability.

My personal favorite is the Walther PP Super in 9mm Police. Ammo is difficult to find, but it's out there. Extremely accurate and reliable.

 

[mbott]

gumshoe4

Check out the CZ 83. It's a bit larger than the Mak, but it's accurate. Can be had in either .380 or 9mm Mak. It comes with 10 round mags and 13 round mags are available.

Solid little pistol.

--
Mike

 

[Kentucky Rifle]

Gumshoe4

They are kinda hard to find right now, but the rumor is that Colt will start making them again soon. I love my Mustang Pocketlite. It's a .380, non-blowback, soft shooter that weighs only 12.5 ounces. Mine has NEVER had a malfunction.
As far as the PT-111...well, stay away from that one. A member of my family has one and the trigger pull is terrible and he called me one night because he couldn't get it back together after field stripping the beast. I went over and I couldn't get it back together either! He took it back to the store and they couldn't get it back together. He ended up taking it to a gun smith and, finally he got it back together. Now, he won't shoot it because he's afraid to take it apart for cleaning.

KR

 

[Patman]

CZ83 is also a good idea, mbott!
I wonder if it was subjected to the Kalifornia "drop test", and if it passed.

 

[blades67]

I would go with the SIG P239. I don't own one (yet), but I have fired a few of them. They have all been highly accurate, even when I wasn't, and completely reliable.

 

[mbott]

Patman,


On May 1, CZ-USA announced that the CZ 83 received California Approval in .380 AUTO. Has not been approved in 9mm Mak as far as I know. The "announcement" did not report which finish (sheeeesh!, only on the left coast) but I assume blued. I believe I read that there is a web site with a complete list of "approved" pistols somewhere.

Good Luck!

--
Mike

 

[chrismc1]

East German Makarov

Patman, Can't argue that. I have an East German PM myself. I can blow out the bulls-eye at the range with it every time at 25 yds. Only pistol I own that I can do that with.


If you need a small-or medium auto,

a Makarov (preferably East German, though a Bulgarian, Russian, or Chinese one will do nicely)

The FEG PJK-9HP (Hungarian Copy of the venerable Browning Hi Power), will take all FN/Browning accessories, but to me, not as accurate due to the trigger, but otherwise a fine weapon.

Or if you can stand a revolver, a used S&W Model 10 or M&P, ranges from 100-300.