Slicking up SAA
- Thread starter sixgunnin
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Bill DeShivs
New member
It's a terrible idea for a whole bunch of reasons. 
I used white lithium grease packed in a Rossi 92 and worked the action for a few hours and it slicked up just fine. Would it have done it without the grease? Maybe. I would not use toothpaste. The best way is have a gunsmith stone the parts but don't do it yourself unless you really know what you're doing. If you want a lighter better feeling action put Wolff springs in it and it will be a lot better but it still won't be as good as it can be with a good stoning job.
Bill DeShivs
New member
Toothpaste is only slightly abrasive to steel, but it can round edges that should be sharp-like the hammer/sear engagement surface. Toothpaste is water-based and the only way you will ever get it all out of the action is to disassemble the gun and soak under warm running water. It also will set up like concrete when it dries.
If it were a feasible option, everyone would do it. No one does, and that's generally a very good indicator that it's a bad idea.
Moving parts should be polished by hand, with the proper abrasives.
If it were a feasible option, everyone would do it. No one does, and that's generally a very good indicator that it's a bad idea.
Moving parts should be polished by hand, with the proper abrasives.
45 Dragoon
New member
Yap, bad idea . . . . . for all the above reasons.
Most of the used revolvers that come in to the shop have wear patterns that are destroying the parts. Combined with too heavy springs from the factory, the time is accelerated exponentially. The new guns that come in get to start life with an action that is setup to wear to a minimum and actually work together to stay engaged.
Folks that "break-in" Italian copies by just cycling the action repeatedly are, at best, lucky if things don't break/wear out fairly soon. At worst, won't last 50 cycles (I've actually had that happen!!).
By adding an abrasive (toothpaste), you are either accelerating to the failure point or (because of the little bit of "lubrication" the paste offers) just moving it out a little bit further.
"You spends your money, and ya takes yer chances! " lol!
Mike
www.goonsgunworks.com
Follow me on Instagram @ goonsgunworks
Most of the used revolvers that come in to the shop have wear patterns that are destroying the parts. Combined with too heavy springs from the factory, the time is accelerated exponentially. The new guns that come in get to start life with an action that is setup to wear to a minimum and actually work together to stay engaged.
Folks that "break-in" Italian copies by just cycling the action repeatedly are, at best, lucky if things don't break/wear out fairly soon. At worst, won't last 50 cycles (I've actually had that happen!!).
By adding an abrasive (toothpaste), you are either accelerating to the failure point or (because of the little bit of "lubrication" the paste offers) just moving it out a little bit further.
"You spends your money, and ya takes yer chances! " lol!
Mike
www.goonsgunworks.com
Follow me on Instagram @ goonsgunworks
bedbugbilly
New member
Bad idea but if you do it, don't forget to floss. :roll eyes:
I have owned dozens of SA revolvers over the last 50 some years and I have never felt the need to "slick up" any of them. Clean them, oil them, use them.
Kind of like a car . . . you buy a new one but I've never felt the need to "slick one up". It get's broken in by use and the mating parts wear in together.
On the other hand, I have owned a number of handguns that I purchased that were used where the previous owner decided to "improve" them by "slicking them up" . . . and usually they have overdone it and on several occasions, created a dangerous situation by making the trigger pull too light.
If you feel the need to "improve" your revolver, do a search on the internet. There are a number of good videos out there that show how to polish the internals, etc. My suggestion though,, is before you start working on a new revolver, you shoot it and get used to it. Run 500 or more rounds through it and then decide IF you think you need to make changes. Chances are, after shooting a good quantity of rounds through it, you'll be used to it and know how it shoots, what the trigger pull is and what the sight picture is for your particular revolver.
And, in regards to SAA shooting - if you are new to it, it is much different than shooting a revolver with adjustable sights. POA and POI are going to be different for different grain weight bullets and even the same grain weight bullets but made by different ammo manufacturers. That's why I only shoot my reloads as I work up the load that shoots best from the revolver. And don't just shoot at a given distance each time such as 25 yards and 50 yards. Shoot at different distances - 11 yards, 14 yards, 28 yards, etc. so that you "learn" the SAA and how to shoot it at different distances. You'll need to learn a little "Kentucky windage' along the way as well. But soon, you'll "know" your dogleg and how to shoot it. And, if you use it for hunting or critters, remember that no two will ever be the same distance from you when you shoot.
:roll eyes:I have owned dozens of SA revolvers over the last 50 some years and I have never felt the need to "slick up" any of them. Clean them, oil them, use them.
Kind of like a car . . . you buy a new one but I've never felt the need to "slick one up". It get's broken in by use and the mating parts wear in together.
On the other hand, I have owned a number of handguns that I purchased that were used where the previous owner decided to "improve" them by "slicking them up" . . . and usually they have overdone it and on several occasions, created a dangerous situation by making the trigger pull too light.
If you feel the need to "improve" your revolver, do a search on the internet. There are a number of good videos out there that show how to polish the internals, etc. My suggestion though,, is before you start working on a new revolver, you shoot it and get used to it. Run 500 or more rounds through it and then decide IF you think you need to make changes. Chances are, after shooting a good quantity of rounds through it, you'll be used to it and know how it shoots, what the trigger pull is and what the sight picture is for your particular revolver.
And, in regards to SAA shooting - if you are new to it, it is much different than shooting a revolver with adjustable sights. POA and POI are going to be different for different grain weight bullets and even the same grain weight bullets but made by different ammo manufacturers. That's why I only shoot my reloads as I work up the load that shoots best from the revolver. And don't just shoot at a given distance each time such as 25 yards and 50 yards. Shoot at different distances - 11 yards, 14 yards, 28 yards, etc. so that you "learn" the SAA and how to shoot it at different distances. You'll need to learn a little "Kentucky windage' along the way as well. But soon, you'll "know" your dogleg and how to shoot it. And, if you use it for hunting or critters, remember that no two will ever be the same distance from you when you shoot.
45 Dragoon
New member
That sounds like real sage advice there bedbugbilly, but just because you're fine with factory offerings, I guess everybody should be? If you don't understand the difference in a custom tuned revolver compared to just the factory offering, I guess the shooters with arthritic hands/thumbs that can't handle the "factory offerings" should just quit shooting.
From your post (I actually read it), it sounds like you bought some S.A.s from some folks that perhaps took your advice and watched some videos . . . . . ! Had you read my post, you'd maybe see that the used revolvers usually are the ones that need the most work compared to new ones. Your idea of shooting 500 rounds and "get used to it" is exactly how some revolvers don't make it through more than a few trips to the range. You may have noticed I commented about one Cap gun (new in the box) that didn't make it past 50 cycles.
I have a S.A. copy that gets fanned pretty much every day (50 cycles min.) and has been for over two years! No breaks of any kind and lock notches are as good as new!
There's a reason some folks like some things a little more "refined" than the "rough around the edges" factory fodder and that may be why you've owned " dozens of SA revolvers" rather than a few that were set up to last.
Of course, if ya don't know, ya don't know . . . .
Mike
www.goonsgunworks.com
Follow me on Instagram @ goonsgunworks
From your post (I actually read it), it sounds like you bought some S.A.s from some folks that perhaps took your advice and watched some videos . . . . . ! Had you read my post, you'd maybe see that the used revolvers usually are the ones that need the most work compared to new ones. Your idea of shooting 500 rounds and "get used to it" is exactly how some revolvers don't make it through more than a few trips to the range. You may have noticed I commented about one Cap gun (new in the box) that didn't make it past 50 cycles.
I have a S.A. copy that gets fanned pretty much every day (50 cycles min.) and has been for over two years! No breaks of any kind and lock notches are as good as new!
There's a reason some folks like some things a little more "refined" than the "rough around the edges" factory fodder and that may be why you've owned " dozens of SA revolvers" rather than a few that were set up to last.
Of course, if ya don't know, ya don't know . . . .
Mike
www.goonsgunworks.com
Follow me on Instagram @ goonsgunworks
Mike,
In all fairness, not everyone needs a tuned single-action revolver. I have quite a few firearms that people say "need" work on the trigger... but for all of them, they work fine stock (search about the Beretta CX4, and the other big one is a Tavor). Being that I like to see what people are talking about, I upgraded both those previous examples... and while difference was night/day, neither made a unusable weapon into a usable one; just made the triggers nicer. People usually want to enjoy to shoot, and not work on fundamentals. Most shooters actually don't benefit from gunsmithing work... but use it as a bandaid.
Don't get me wrong, I can click a link and see your background... so understand your position on gunsmithing work. However, if you see a gun break within 50 cycles... you really aren't going to tell the person to send it back to the manufacturer/importer for repair? My trap gun was back for repair work twice within 600 rounds/five months (first, noticed a chip in forend, but while talking to customer service, an ejector was locking the action up; second, stock cracked at wrist). Noticed some primers taking a second strike to go off out of the top barrel... so going to try another brand of shells. If it keeps up, will be going back a third time within a year. I shouldn't have to bring a new gun to a gunsmith to get it running... unless I messed it up myself.
I have a Ruger New Vaquero Convertible in .45 (Colt and ACP cylinders). Swapped in a Super Blackhawk hammer, which was my biggest complaint... but talking with a gunsmith now to solve the second complaint; polished stainless steel. I'm looking at about $150 for bead blasting the gun and two cylinders... which I have no problem paying. I did look at the costs for an action job, but for about double the price (was about $150, which is common for what I found from various gunsmiths), I have no issue with the trigger. Breaks crisp, and little take up. It isn't worth it to me on the gun, especially not competing with it. I might have him serrate the front sight, but action wise, I don't see me having him do anything.
I also have a PW87 and an IAC 97 (I like the history of Browning's shotguns; had a real 1897, but they tend to be worn down)... the latter was worked over by Johnny Meadows. I contacted Coyote Cap about the PW87, and told him my situation... gun functions fine (can load the tube, lifter, and chamber just fine), but looking at threading for Remington chokes and refinishing. Was opting for nickel-boron, as I have a lot of experience with it, and mentioned that I felt it would slick up the action a bit.
He understood where I was coming from, and said that it was probably easier to use my guys for both jobs (on the East coast), opposed to shipping across the country to him. Now, if I was in CAS, I'm sure he would have been more involved in having me use him... and for good reason. However, why waste my money/his time (where he could be working for someone that the work would matter) for something that probably won't help my situation? That is someone I'd trust their opinion on... and if I ever looking into CAS, he would be doing whatever guns I'd be using that he works on.
In regards to the statement I quoted above, true... I don't know about your gunsmithing work. However, I don't need to spend $145 (plus shipping both ways) to tell myself I don't need it. Far from a jab at you (you seem like you know your stuff), but for the need of my Ruger, there is not one benefit for someone that isn't competing and has no issue with the standard action. I know that.
Jim Watson
New member
I sent my Colt SAA out for professional action work. It's nice.
When SASS went to four-gun stages, I added a Cimarron ASM. I deburred and resprung the action myself and was content.
When SASS went to four-gun stages, I added a Cimarron ASM. I deburred and resprung the action myself and was content.
I use a lot of bp revolvers. Some of them I have done a little action work on myself but most of them I use as they come out of the box. My 1873 Uberti/Cimarron has Wolff springs but it's the only one. I've never had a problem with broken springs or parts wearing out because the springs were too heavy. I've replaced one hand spring and one worn out hand in 48 years. The hand spring was on a new G&G that had a ridge in the hand slot where the spring rides and the worn out hand was on a Rigarmi 1858 Remington that was 40 years old at the time. I'm not knocking Mike or his work. I know him from several forums and he has a lot of very satisfied and repeat customers but having a gun slicked up isn't necessary for the average shooter. And having one modified to where it can be fanned with no worries is overkill.
45 Dragoon
New member
Of course, everyone is correct here.
I have yet to force anyone to send me a cap gun to work on.
Some folks don't want to pull back an 8 or 9 pound hammer. That's fine.
Some folks don't care if the arbor length is correct on their open top revolver. That's fine.
Some folks don't care if the timing is correct or not, just so long it goes bang. That's fine.
Some folks don't care if a bolt block isn't present to support the bolt which is a must for the most accurate action in a S.A. and goes a long way towards protecting the locking notches and the bolt as well. And that's fine.
Some folks don't care if the bolt is digging ditches in the cylinder. That's fine.
But, some do! And I thank them very much and I strive to give them the best revolver that I can, that they expect.
Many times I remove a non-functioning hammer roll and clearance the hammer so that the roll will be the bearing it's supposed to be which is important to overall action feel. (Many times the rolls are frozen). It would reflect on my overall service so it's an automatic for me.
As I said in my post above, some folks appreciate a "step above " the "run of the mill". Even 1st gen S.A.A.s benefit from a true action tuning. That is pretty much true for any mechanical device be it S.A. revolvers, cars . . . whatever.
Some folks want their "stuff" to be as close to "perfect" as it can be, I'm just doing my best to make that happen.
As far as "overkill", some of us call that . . . . . "normal".
Mike
www.goonsgunworks.com
Follow me on Instagram @ goonsgunworks
By the way, " respringing" is not anything close to tuning an action.
I have yet to force anyone to send me a cap gun to work on.
Some folks don't want to pull back an 8 or 9 pound hammer. That's fine.
Some folks don't care if the arbor length is correct on their open top revolver. That's fine.
Some folks don't care if the timing is correct or not, just so long it goes bang. That's fine.
Some folks don't care if a bolt block isn't present to support the bolt which is a must for the most accurate action in a S.A. and goes a long way towards protecting the locking notches and the bolt as well. And that's fine.
Some folks don't care if the bolt is digging ditches in the cylinder. That's fine.
But, some do! And I thank them very much and I strive to give them the best revolver that I can, that they expect.
Many times I remove a non-functioning hammer roll and clearance the hammer so that the roll will be the bearing it's supposed to be which is important to overall action feel. (Many times the rolls are frozen). It would reflect on my overall service so it's an automatic for me.
As I said in my post above, some folks appreciate a "step above " the "run of the mill". Even 1st gen S.A.A.s benefit from a true action tuning. That is pretty much true for any mechanical device be it S.A. revolvers, cars . . . whatever.
Some folks want their "stuff" to be as close to "perfect" as it can be, I'm just doing my best to make that happen.
As far as "overkill", some of us call that . . . . . "normal".
Mike
www.goonsgunworks.com
Follow me on Instagram @ goonsgunworks
By the way, " respringing" is not anything close to tuning an action.
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Jim Watson
New member
I well know that. Posts of "action jobs" by putting in lighter springs, especially in double actions, just makes me cringe.
But as I said, I was "content." Could the gun have been improved by real gun$mithing? Certainly. But I did not figure I needed it for my level of participation. Which kind of petered out, I haven't shot a .44-40 in years.
I foresee a market for serious single actions in California, etc.
Firearms laws are getting ever more repressive and nobody but armed government employees will be trusted with automatics or even double actions.
There is at present a single action loophole. A good SAA (or two) and lots of practice might be the last resort of private citizens' self defense.
45 Dragoon
New member
Jim,
Ha! You and me both!! (No animosity ment towards you about your statement) It's just that many "trigger jobs" get talked about on the forums by just " installing a lighter mainspring. That kind of resulting "trigger job" has a fairly good chance of being dangerous.
As for the S.A. situation in Cali., that's a shame !! If it gets that bad, I'm OK with cutting it off and pushing it out to sea!!!
Mike
www.goonsgunworks.com
Follow me on Instagram @ goonsgunworks
Ha! You and me both!! (No animosity ment towards you about your statement) It's just that many "trigger jobs" get talked about on the forums by just " installing a lighter mainspring. That kind of resulting "trigger job" has a fairly good chance of being dangerous.
As for the S.A. situation in Cali., that's a shame !! If it gets that bad, I'm OK with cutting it off and pushing it out to sea!!!
Mike
www.goonsgunworks.com
Follow me on Instagram @ goonsgunworks
A couple years ago, I'd have been with several of you regarding getting a cap and ball revolver tuned. Why bother? Then I acquired an Uberti 1860 Army that had a couple manufacturer problems (common ones) and it just bothered me. I hadn't even shot the gun, but the previous owner put 10 or 20 rounds through it. I sent it to Mike mainly to have the b/c gap and arbor bedding adjusted, but got the gun back in a condition that exceeds belief. Perfection. So there is a pro and con to the story. Con: I'm forever unsatisfied with manufacturer specs and conditions. Pro: I have a revolver that I will never get rid of.