Single Action Newb

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Driveout02

New member
Hey all,
I'm really a complete single action newbie. I know next to nothing about these guns (at least in terms of brands, what's desirable, etc.-I suppose I do have a basic understanding of how they operate).
Anyway, I've recently been getting into the old spaghetti western films, and picked up a Vaquero at the store for S&G.. and instantly fell in love.
Now what I need to know is what caliber should I be looking for (what are the general applications/price of each?), should I be looking at a different brand instead of Ruger, what's the most user-friendly barrel lengths, etc. I suppose I'm wondering if someone could sum up these single action pistols in a paragraph or two. I apologize in advance for the abhorrent lack of knowledge on my end, but seriously, this a brand new corner of firearms for me. Thanks!!
 
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MrBorland

New member
John Taffin's book (CraigC's link) is a great reference. I recently got a copy, and it's well-read already.

As to your original question, I'll offer what I can in a nutshell, but have to reply with a few questions of my own:

1) How important is authenticity to you? You have 2 basic choices - a gun that is as close to a real SAA in form and function as possible (i.e., a clone), or a gun that superficially looks like a SAA, but really is a modernized SA revolver. Clones of varying prices are made or marketed by Uberti, Cimarron, Beretta, etc. Check out Navy Arms as well. The best clones are made by US Firearms, and are very expensive. The modern SAs, as far as I know, are limited to Ruger and Freedom Arms, with the latter being very high end guns, so for the sake of this discussion, I'll assume Ruger is the modern SA that's relevant here. For all practical purposes here, the 2 major differences between a clone (or original SAA) and a Ruger are strength and the presence of a transfer bar, which allows one to load 6 rounds safely. On SAA clones, you must only load 5 rounds and keep the hammer down on an empty chamber. Rugers, especially the Blackhawks, are also renouned for their strength, so you can shoot loads that you really shouldn't (or absolutely must not) in a SAA clone. In addition, there are plenty of aftermarket parts available for Rugers if you want to customize it a bit. Obviously, if you're thinking of CAS, one of the clones would be good, but I understand some CAS shooters shoot Ruger Vaqueros as well.

2) How much do you want to spend? As indicated above, you can go hog wild and spring for a real Colt SAA, or a USFA, or a Freedom Arms. I've seen nice looking Uberti's in the $350 - $400 range. As far as I know, a Cimarron is a Uberti, just a higher grade, and a bit more expensive. A Ruger Blackhawk/Vaquero is $500-ish.

3) What do you want to do with it? That'll have a bearing on caliber, barrel length and IMO, whether to get adjustable sights or not. Plinking/target? Consider a .22LR if the cost of ammo might be an issue. The Ruger Single Six is very popular and comes with an extra cylinder so you can shoot .22magnums as well. More bang? Play cowboy? Several choices here, but the most popular might be .357 magnum, so you can shoot .38spl or .357magnum. Ruger also has a .357 magnum convertible that comes with an extra 9mm cylinder for a little extra versatility. You could also go .44magnum and shoot .44spl. Or .45 Colt, though factory .45Colt ammo is pretty pricey. Hunting? .357magnum as a minimum. Better choice would be .44magnum, or .45 Colt if you reload and will use a Ruger, or, if that's not hot enough, a Ruger-derived John Linebaugh big bore.

As far as barrel length, if you were going to hunt or target shoot with it, consider a 7.5" or 6.5" barrel, otherwise, a 5.5" or 4 5/8" may feel more balanced and would slide in and out of a holster easier. Try to handle a few of each and see which feels best.

There's a lot of info on this forum, so use the search function, and you'll find lots more info as well.
 
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shu

New member
There are many threads on this subject. My single action ownership is limited to two: a bisley Vaquero in 357mag, and a New Vaquero in 45 colt.

Ruger makes solid guns at a decent price. With Rugers you can safely load all six chambers. The hammer and firing pin are separated by a momentum transfer bar. With the original design, firing pin on the hammer, you can safely load only five chambers, with an empty chamber under the firing pin.

If true-to-the-old-west is important to you, and you are bothered by Ruger's flat faced hammer, then look elsewhere - Uberti maybe.

The Ruger New Vaquero is very close in size and weight to the original classic Colt single action army (SSA) of late 18th century fame. I find it very pointable and hand friendly.

The original Vaqueros (no longer in production, but still available new) were built on a larger frame. They are unbeatable for strong, but also noticeably chunkier to handle. If you intend to hand load and push the upper limits, look for one of these. Otherwise, you will likely be happier with the NewVaq.

All Vaqueros have fixed sights. They are suitable for CAS (cowboy action shooting) sports. If you want adjustable sights, look at the Ruger blackhawks.

Single actions are generally designed to roll up in the hand when fired, helping to absorb recoil and presenting the hammer near the thumb to cock for the next shot.

The original SSA design is for a two finger, pinky-under-the-butt grip. Bisley design (after a famed target shooting location in England) has a longer grip, lower hammer spur, and different trigger placement. Bisley is not so true-to-the-old-west, but is argueably better for target shooting and for really heavy loads.

The most common calibers are 357 mag, 44 mag, and 45 colt.

If you want to do serious hunting, and do not hand load, you will want 44mag. In Rugers, that means either the original (heavy) vaquero or the adjustable sight blackhawk.

357 mag is a good way to go. Use 38 spl for plinking; use 357mag for social situations and such hunting as appropriate.

45 Colt, like the 38spl, is a cartridge from the black powder days; the case is needlessly large for today's smokeless powder. But if you hand load, you can make some awesome loads with smokeless powder in that large case; in range of 44 magnum. But Ruger Blackhawk or original Vaquero only; don't try it in the NewVaq.

If you find the modestly priced Rugers above your budget, look at Uberti, Taurus, or others. Just expect that quality control, service, and spare parts may also be lower. Cimmaron imports high end Ubertis

If you are ready for $1000 and up there are some fine custom and near-custom guns. But I only lust.

Hope this helps - shu
 
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Driveout02

New member
wow guys, thanks for all the info! This really helps a lot. Like you, I could only lust at the higher priced ones as well. My only other question is (and it sounds like one of you tried to address this, but I'm kind of confused), if I get the 45 Colt, am I able to shoot 44 Mags in it? Would it be similar to the .357/.38 Special relationship? Again, thanks a whole bunch for your posts, very informative!!
~Jake.
 
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s4s4u

New member
No, no, no! Two totally different animals. 45 LC shoots a .451/.452 bullet. 44 Mag a .429/.430. The .38 Special has the same bore, .357, as the magnum.
 
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22-rimfire

New member
The most common calibers (hence most popular) are 45 Colt, 357/38spl, and 22LR. You should be happy with any of those. They would be my first choice depending on what I wanted to do with the gun. I'd start with the 22, myself.

Guns chambered in 454 Casull enjoy the convenience of being able to shoot 45 LC (Colt) in them as well. That may be why you were thinking 44 mag and 45LC. Also remember, that a revolver chambered in 38spl will not shoot 357 mags. It must be a 357 mag to shoot both 357 mag and 38spl ammo.
 
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Hawg

New member
.44 mag will shoot .44 spcl. I don't like the Rugers because they don't operate the same way as the original Colts did. The clones do. The Clones have a half cock for loading, the Ruger doesn't. A Ruger you just open the loading gate and the cylinder freewheels. The clones have the four separate hammer clicks the originals are famous for, Ruger doesn't. A Ruger really doesn't look all that much like an original colt when you really take a good look at it. To me a 5 1/2 inch barrel is the best balanced but I like the 7 1/2.
 
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shu

New member
Indeed, the loading procedure with the original (large frame) Vaquero was a minor annoyance.

IIRC (I no longer have the gun) rotating the cylinder to locate the next empty chamber at the loading gate, it seemed often to stop just past the proper position. There aint no backing up, so that meant a full rotation of the cylinder to get that chamber in position again.

The cylinder indexing is different in the NewVaq - more user friendly, but still not the same as the original Colt SSA (which some folks favor for "authenticity").
 
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MrBorland

New member
IIRC (I no longer have the gun) rotating the cylinder to locate the next empty chamber at the loading gate, it seemed often to stop just past the proper position. There aint no backing up, so that meant a full rotation of the cylinder to get that chamber in position again.
Click to expand...

Yup, my Blackhawk is like that. Brownell's sells a replacement prawl that allows the cylinder to rotate in both directions when the loading gate is open.

http://www.brownells.com/aspx/ns/store/ProductDetail.aspx?p=9862&title=RUGER~ SA FREE SPIN PAWL?
 
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shu

New member
One other thought for Driveout02.

Check the price of ammunition.
..22 and .22LR is inexpensive, fine for fun and plinking, good for pests and small game. Nothing wrong with that.
..357mag/38spl offers a wide range of factory ammunition choice reportedly good up to modest size hogs and small deer (i am not a hunter).
..45colt begins to get into expensive territory, and not much selection. Maybe best not go there unless you reload. I bought the NewVaq Ruger in 45 colt because I do hand load and wanted to tinker with that caliber, accepting that I would not be able to push the limits of the cartridge with the lighter NewVaq frame (vice the heaver original Vaquero). (Be careful also not to confound the 45 colt, sometimes called 45 long colt, with the 45acp (automatic colt pistol) used in the 1911 style and other semi-automatic pistols.)
..44magnum, the big boomer - altho will also accept the lighter 44 spl. Suitable for heavy frame guns only. Check price and availability of ammunition. Worth considering if you look to serious hunting with a handgun; add some points if you handload; maybe not the best choice otherwise.
 
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