SIG Questions

[briang2ad]

Mostly about the P220...

1) Do after market mags work well? (8rd Factory mags are outrageous).

2) It seems to be a VERY durable pistol - are the pre-owned ones good? (dealer at a shop said no, but he doesn't carry them...)

3) What should one look for with a used one?

4) What is a good price in the Mid-Atlantic area? (North VA)

5) Any particular model/finish of P220 better/ more desirable than others?

 

[Handy]

1) Some, not all. Mecgar, ACT.

2) No more durable than other guns, less than some. The frames eventually wear out and crack.

3) Inspect the front frame rails for cracking and wear.

4) I wouldn't pay more than $400 + tax for one if it is obviously used. Lighter use guns can go within $50 of new prices.

5) The stainless ST guns are all steel, and really a different beast. The old heel release guns are less diserable, if anything. I doubt there is a premium for nickel.

 

[FALshootist]

I think the SIG 220 is the finest 45 on the market. You'll be hard pressed to find a gun thats as accurate and reliable right out of the box as a SIG 220 especially for the price. I don't like the all steel gun as it is too heavy.

 

[briang2ad]

Frames

I read the Wiley Clap article about the durablity after 10,000 rounds and it was pretty impressive. Are there cracking problems??? I have reservations about polymer and alloy frames - just doesn't seem that they would be as durable as steel, but I haven't heard about problems with the SIG.

 

[SanDiegan]

Pre-Owned

SIG stands behind their "Certified Pre-Owned" pistols, visit their website and read about their guarantee. sigarms.com I am very happy with my pre-owned 226, originally manufactured in 1994. On the website their is a list of the selected delaers who can sell these pre-owned pistols.

Also, sigforum.com is a good source of discussion on SIGs with a format very similar to TFL.

 

[juliet charley]

Here is a couple good reviews/commentaries on the P220 (from TF):

My PD issues SIG pistols; P-220s in .45, the 226, 228,and 239 in 9MM. The dept split is about 35% .45ACP and 65% 9MM. I have been the lead full-time firearms instructor/armorer for the past 12 years. As a LEO,I carried my Colt Govt or Commander from 78-90, switched to P-220 from 90-93, and carried a P-228 from then to present. With all that in mind, here are a few of my observations:
1. The P-220 is probably the most accurate service pistol right out of the box.

2. The P-220 is much more finicky about duty ammo than any of the SIG 9MMs. Winchester RA45T work just fine.

3. I see 10 times more parts break in P-220s than any of the SIG 9MMs. The 9MMs are just much more reliable. That's the reason I have carried one as a trainer and as a SWAT officer.

4. P-220 magazines have experienced several changes. The early "small zipper seam" mags had poor top welds and were prone to splitting. We replaced all of those with the later "trapezoidal seam" mags and have not split and of those. Heavily used mags may develope small cracks from the rear feed rail cut, causing the mag lips to lose a certain amount of tension. We have not seen very many of these but they do occur and the mag should be replaced. (the SIG 8 rounders are trash, stay away) The newest stainless, made by Mec-Gar for SIG, seem to work alright but we have only been using them for about 3 years.

5. Early P-220s, without the hammer reset spring, were surplused out as a safety hazard, relating to the decocking lever vs thumb relax issue.

6. All of our SIG are surplused out after 10 years of in inventory. This is done primarily due to the constant changes made to SIG pistols by SIG and the failure of SIG to communicate these changes to their SIG certified armorers.

Overall, SIGs are pretty darn good service pistols for LE use, but the 9MMs will prove to be much more reliable and durable than the P-220 .45. I would not use a P-220 .45 in any demanding military role which required the pistol to be fired ALOT. If you are going to fire this P-220 pistol ALOT then you'll need spare roll pins, trigger bar springs, trigger bars, slide catch springs, locking pieces, trigger pivot pins, and hammer reset springs. Or, you could just carry a P-226 or P-228 in 9MM, know that your pistol will work,pay attention to shot placement, and have a wonderful life.

I was/am a factory trained Sig armorer and worked at an agency where we issued the p226 and p220.
I did most of the preventative maintenance on the guns, they came in once a year.
At about 3-5K rounds we began to notice the P220s were having more parts break including trigger bars,and reset springs. A few craked locking pieces and the roll pins seemed to walk out regardless of how and who put them in the pistols.
Magazines fed and functioned fine however each different style had problems the best were the later Mec-Gar units but they did sometimes crack at the rear edge.
The P226 pistols just kept on going mine has over 53,000 though it with just changing the springs.
A frequent p220 problem was the trigger return spring coming off during recoil forcing you to reset the trigger by hand each time you pulled it. This could be a fatal problem in a lethal force encounter and it happened enough that some shooters were pretty good at finishing the course of fire with a broken or missing spring on the trigger return.
For concealed carry or as a police issue sidearm with a rigorous maintenance program The P220 is a very accurate handy platform.
You pay the price for the alloy frame with more battering to the parts.
We had to replace the frame on a SWAT 220 with Surfire attached due to cracks.
SWAT later switched to the H&K USP45 and did not have any parts breakage but did get some
problem magazines that were eventually sorted out to be the wrong lot number for our pistols.(the lot we received was slated for destruction but was shipped instead) I wonder if the good mags were thrashed...
And yes Sig is bad about getting updates to armorers thats why they want you to go back to school every few years they do want to make money too.

The comment immediately following the first quoted passage was, "Hallelujah ! Thank you for speaking the truth about the P220."

 

[briang2ad]

Thanks!

JC: Great post - good information - not as anecdotal as one usually gets!

 

[liliysdad]

Mostly about the P220...

1) Do after market mags work well? (8rd Factory mags are outrageous).

As was stated, Mec-Gar, Factory, or ACT/ Novaks work. The ACT/Novaks can be had for 20 bucks and less if you shop


2) It seems to be a VERY durable pistol - are the pre-owned ones good? (dealer at a shop said no, but he doesn't carry them...)

It is a very durable gun, and the factory Cert's are as good as new, in my opinion. Mine had a bit of finish wera, but aesthetics do not bother me one bit for a service gun

3) What should one look for with a used one?

Look for obvious abuse. Rust, i.e, the normal things on any used gun. On a Factory Cert'd gun, the internals have been gone through and inspected, eith all worn parts replaced.

4) What is a good price in the Mid-Atlantic area? (North VA)

Im not sure of your area, but 400.00 for a good, solid, used gun is average. The oddball guns will fetch more. The heel release guns are actually worth more then the American guns, but are less in demand. The 9mm, and .38 Super guns fetch a premium. The dual tone guns also fetch a bit more.

5) Any particular model/finish of P220 better/ more desirable than others?

As I said, the Euro guns actually fetch a higher preimum than the American guns, as do the 7.65 Luger, 9mm, and .38 Super guns. he Nickel and Dual Tone guns are worth more. The Stainless guns, which I dont like, are obviously worth more.