Real quick... I've never shot either of them. My experiance is limited to an M9 or 1911s. My preriquisites... Must be .45, easy to carry concealed, SA/DA with manual safety (or at least a decocker), must be able to fit a suppresor should the need arise, and of course should be reliable enough to trust your life with. Price isn't much of an issue, but I'm not willing to go much over a grand. I know it's easier to find sigs for a little less than the H&K, but I'm not sure if it's a better deal or not. I've seen a 600 dollar beretta FTF once per magazine, and I've seen a 300 dollar RIA 1911 fire over 1000 rounds without one FTF. I know enough to know that sig and h&k make amazing pistols, so is an h&k really 2 or 3 hundred dollars better than a sig? Of course I'm going to test fire models from both when I get back to the states, but I figured I could get a few opinions to consider untill then. Anywho, thank you all... and Pray for the troops.
Sig or HK
- Thread starter 5whiskey
- Start date
I would go with Sig, personally. Customer service sucks with both companies, but both make pistols that are virtually unstoppable, so you will hopefully never have to deal with the service end.
Dollar for dollar, I think my Sigs are better pistols. The triggers on the HKs are downright god-aweful. The Sigs are smooth as can be. The HK will probably be lighter, and if you are looking for a CCW .45, I'm not sure what offerings Sig has that can compete with the USPc .45 in the size and weight department. Plus, you can get a compact tactical if you go with HK and have the threaded barrel, though you will still need aftermarket sights to see over the can (HK was rumored to be addressing this issue and was suppose to be fitting the CT with taller sights sometime in the coming months).
Still, Sigs are a joy to shoot and every bit the quality of the HK's. It's really just a matter of preference - as I said, my dollar would go to SigARMS.
Dollar for dollar, I think my Sigs are better pistols. The triggers on the HKs are downright god-aweful. The Sigs are smooth as can be. The HK will probably be lighter, and if you are looking for a CCW .45, I'm not sure what offerings Sig has that can compete with the USPc .45 in the size and weight department. Plus, you can get a compact tactical if you go with HK and have the threaded barrel, though you will still need aftermarket sights to see over the can (HK was rumored to be addressing this issue and was suppose to be fitting the CT with taller sights sometime in the coming months).
Still, Sigs are a joy to shoot and every bit the quality of the HK's. It's really just a matter of preference - as I said, my dollar would go to SigARMS.
Sig
I would go with Sig for sure, IMO HK's are way overpriced... have you handled them? I used to like HK's before I actually handled one...BTW what models are talking about?
I hope that's not the reason you're not considering a Beretta (btw was it a 92 or Px4?) my 92FS has never jamed and it has a few thousands of rouns thu it... I'm not telling you to buy one just letting you know that it's not typical.
I would go with Sig for sure, IMO HK's are way overpriced... have you handled them? I used to like HK's before I actually handled one...BTW what models are talking about?
Sounds like either cheap aftermarket magazines or underlaoded ammo...
I hope that's not the reason you're not considering a Beretta (btw was it a 92 or Px4?) my 92FS has never jamed and it has a few thousands of rouns thu it... I'm not telling you to buy one just letting you know that it's not typical.First, I'll say that both Sig and HK make top shelf firearms. You can't go wrong with either assuming they fit your bill. I own 5 HKs including the USP45Tac, and a Sig P220. You can see where my preference lies.
If you get the chance you should shoot them both and see which feels better in your hands. Let the gun pick you not the other way around.
IMO you are asking to have your cake and eat it too. The USP45Tac comes right out of the box ready for a can. Downside is that not many folks can comfortably conceal a USP45 in their pants. You want taller sights to work with a can but they are a definite drawback when it comes to carrying. Etc, etc...
Have you looked into the the viability of obtaining a tax stamp for a suppressor in NC? Don't know about your area buy most local AHJD (most likely your Co Sherriff) are unwilling to sign off on the paperwork.
I don't get the persistent myth that HK cust service sucks. I've had 3 dealings with them in the last few years. None the fault of the weapon, mind you. Match trigger installs, Variant conversions, replacement parts. All were handled professionally and in a timely manner. No complaints on my part.
If you get the chance you should shoot them both and see which feels better in your hands. Let the gun pick you not the other way around.
IMO you are asking to have your cake and eat it too. The USP45Tac comes right out of the box ready for a can. Downside is that not many folks can comfortably conceal a USP45 in their pants. You want taller sights to work with a can but they are a definite drawback when it comes to carrying. Etc, etc...
Have you looked into the the viability of obtaining a tax stamp for a suppressor in NC? Don't know about your area buy most local AHJD (most likely your Co Sherriff) are unwilling to sign off on the paperwork.
I don't get the persistent myth that HK cust service sucks. I've had 3 dealings with them in the last few years. None the fault of the weapon, mind you. Match trigger installs, Variant conversions, replacement parts. All were handled professionally and in a timely manner. No complaints on my part.
I own HKs so my choice should be obvious. The HK USPc Tactical would meet your needs very well indeed. I found the Sigs to be a bit too heavy and the grips aren't as comfortable as the HK. As for price, neither are inexpensive, in fact they run about the same price wise. By the way, HK's triggers are just fine out of the box, the same with Sig.
Hammerhead
New member
If concealed carry is an issue, definatly get the Sig.
Maybe the Sig P220 SAS (Sig Anti-Snag) would be ideal. You could get a threaded barrel from Barsto or Jarvis for a supressor 'should the need arise'
The SAS models are melted or dehorned at the factory for a smooth feel/draw.
The USP .45 is awesome in its own right, but for CCW it would be the last pistol I would pick. Great accuracy and soft recoil. The Tactical version is still available with high profile adjustable sights and a threaded barrel. Should sell for less than a grand.
I find the Sig's trigger to be much better than a USP, also Sig's ergonomics are way better IMO. I sold all my USPs because they just didn't fit my hand and I shoot the Sigs so much better.
Both guns have a very different feel. You should at least handle the basic Sig and H&K models before you choose.
I think both brands are worth the cost. If I had to pick a pistol for life and death reliability without testing it, I would choose either a USP or a Sig over any other brand.
Maybe the Sig P220 SAS (Sig Anti-Snag) would be ideal. You could get a threaded barrel from Barsto or Jarvis for a supressor 'should the need arise'
The SAS models are melted or dehorned at the factory for a smooth feel/draw.
The USP .45 is awesome in its own right, but for CCW it would be the last pistol I would pick. Great accuracy and soft recoil. The Tactical version is still available with high profile adjustable sights and a threaded barrel. Should sell for less than a grand.
I find the Sig's trigger to be much better than a USP, also Sig's ergonomics are way better IMO. I sold all my USPs because they just didn't fit my hand and I shoot the Sigs so much better.
Both guns have a very different feel. You should at least handle the basic Sig and H&K models before you choose.
I think both brands are worth the cost. If I had to pick a pistol for life and death reliability without testing it, I would choose either a USP or a Sig over any other brand.
KingofAttendance
New member
it all depends on how big your hands are
doublestack .45 or single stack .45?
doublestack .45 or single stack .45?
I have owned many examples of both and I say HK. The HK .45 is a more reliable gun than the 220, IMHO. I have thousands of rounds of experience with SIG 220s and HK usp and the SIG is a tad bit more choosey about ammo. Further, SIG quality control, again IMHO, has dropped in the last few years. That said, the SIG 220 is an excellent piece. The "carry" model is nice, if a little bit bigger than the HK.45 compact. Plus, with he new HK45 model coming on the scene, higher capacity magazines will become availible for the .45 compact. The HK.45c can be carried cocked and locked, and the SIG SAO guns have had an extremely bumpy introduction (see quality control above).
Just what I think.
Just what I think.
Well, H&K and Sig are about the only two handguns I have any personal experience with as far as putting alot of rounds downrange. That being said, I've gotten to shoot several different P220's of my dad's on a regular basis, and my pistol is an H&K USP fullsize in .45. I have to say, if you want a nice trigger pull, some of the older DA/SA Sigs are amazing. They are comfortable too. Seems like the newer DA/SA models (at least that I've shot) have a little more travel, and a heavier trigger pull. They're still great pistols though. The USP does give up something to the Sig on the DA pull, but the SA pull is pretty crisp, although there is a bit more overtravel after the hammer falls than I would like. You'll have to get used to not pulling the trigger too far back after it breaks. Also, FWIW, I believe that all models from H&K that come with a threaded barrel also have a high front post to see over the suppressor . Anyway, I love both the P220 and the USP, but the reasons I chose the H&K are:
All of that being said, you won't go wrong with either pistol. The main points that won me over with H&K are the high capacity magazine, and the fact that you can carry DA/SA, or SA cocked & locked.
Just my 2 cents, YMMV.
Best of luck,
Jason
. Anyway, I love both the P220 and the USP, but the reasons I chose the H&K are:- Can be carried DA decocked and ready to fire, OR SA cocked & locked a la 1911
- Double stack magazine. 12+1 capacity, and because the mags are steel and not plastic like the other caliber USP's, the grip is surprisingly thin for a double stack.
- MUCH easier to completely disassemble and clean than the Sigs IMHO.
- Lockout mechanism in the magazine reservoir. You can turn a mechanism in the magazine well with a special key to lock the slide, hammer, and trigger mechanisms. It's a nice safety feature IMO.
- Everything on the H&K's is pretty modular. Trigger groups/variants can be switched out for others if you ever chose to do so.
All of that being said, you won't go wrong with either pistol. The main points that won me over with H&K are the high capacity magazine, and the fact that you can carry DA/SA, or SA cocked & locked.
Just my 2 cents, YMMV.
Best of luck,
Jason
I have 3 Sig's and 1 H&K. You can't go wrong with either. Sig has no external saftey's to mess with, however I carry my USP locked and cocked. The USP is a polymer 1911, with a higher round count and a different mag release. And the added bonus of a decocker. All the control are in the same places, as you stated you are already use to 1911's, that might weight into your thinking. Good luck.
HorseSoldier
New member
I have a Sig P220 and a USP (9mm rather than 45) and consider both to be excellent designs. Both run like tops and I've yet to have any feeding or other reliability issues, even though my USP is pretty long in the tooth for that design (1994 production) and seems to have seen some pretty decent use prior to my purchase of it used.
I personally prefer a metal frame to a polymer one (mostly just personal preference and not intending to start an argument with fans of polymer frames), and so, for me, the pick would be P220. I do like the carry options most HK USP fire control groups provide, on the other hand, and if cocked and locked was a desired/required capability I'd probably go with the USP 45.
When it's all said and done, on these two options, I'd mostly say see if you can get some rounds downrange through both and see how well the two fit your hand. Either one is going to be a winner, performance wise, so it all boils down to which feels better in your hand and provides the features you want.
I personally prefer a metal frame to a polymer one (mostly just personal preference and not intending to start an argument with fans of polymer frames), and so, for me, the pick would be P220. I do like the carry options most HK USP fire control groups provide, on the other hand, and if cocked and locked was a desired/required capability I'd probably go with the USP 45.
When it's all said and done, on these two options, I'd mostly say see if you can get some rounds downrange through both and see how well the two fit your hand. Either one is going to be a winner, performance wise, so it all boils down to which feels better in your hand and provides the features you want.
Wheeler, the only gun that fits your parameters out of the box is the HK USP Compact Tactical. Dunno why you feel the need for a suppressor, as that complicates things tremendously.
I have a 1996-vintage P220 and a USP Compact. The USPc has it ALL over the P220 in terms of concealibility, in both size and weight, especially when you carry the USPc with the flat base magazine. Mag capacity is the same for both: eight rounds.
AFAIK, the only "smaller" version of the Sig .45 was the P245, now out of print. I have no experience with that one.
We have been dealing with Sig pistols since 1989; in typical German fashion, they have tended to remain the same without much innovation. Recently, that has changed, with the DAK (DA-only) trigger and a SA-only version of the P220. I haven't handled the latter, but the former is pretty miserable IMO. Sig has been trying to sell us on buying these to replace our conventional 220s; no sale so far, but the new FTU "person", who can tell a gun from a flashlight two out of three times on a good day, is nibbling.
Anyway... as you might have gathered from the responses, either pistol is great quality, but quite different in feel. You'll really have to handle them yourself to decide.
The price difference might be 2 or 3 hundred dollars in some yuppie gun store; but the pistols are comparatively priced in the real world. Both are expensive. Both are worth it.
Personally, I carry the P220 when wearing a uniform (rarely these days), and the USPc when in plainclothes (which is my usual attire). The reason for that is because I didn't see the need to purchase a $120+ uniform duty holster for the USPc when I have a perfectly good one issued to me along with the P220.
The Sig is a good pistol, and I will purchase my issued one when I retire here shortly. I would not hesitate to "take it into battle".
But the USP Compact is the one that stays with me constantly. Mine has the LEM trigger, which I feel is superior for close-range pistol fighting. And, IMO the HK is just on a higher level of quality overall.
.
I have a 1996-vintage P220 and a USP Compact. The USPc has it ALL over the P220 in terms of concealibility, in both size and weight, especially when you carry the USPc with the flat base magazine. Mag capacity is the same for both: eight rounds.
AFAIK, the only "smaller" version of the Sig .45 was the P245, now out of print. I have no experience with that one.
We have been dealing with Sig pistols since 1989; in typical German fashion, they have tended to remain the same without much innovation. Recently, that has changed, with the DAK (DA-only) trigger and a SA-only version of the P220. I haven't handled the latter, but the former is pretty miserable IMO. Sig has been trying to sell us on buying these to replace our conventional 220s; no sale so far, but the new FTU "person", who can tell a gun from a flashlight two out of three times on a good day, is nibbling.
Anyway... as you might have gathered from the responses, either pistol is great quality, but quite different in feel. You'll really have to handle them yourself to decide.
The price difference might be 2 or 3 hundred dollars in some yuppie gun store; but the pistols are comparatively priced in the real world. Both are expensive. Both are worth it.
Personally, I carry the P220 when wearing a uniform (rarely these days), and the USPc when in plainclothes (which is my usual attire). The reason for that is because I didn't see the need to purchase a $120+ uniform duty holster for the USPc when I have a perfectly good one issued to me along with the P220.
The Sig is a good pistol, and I will purchase my issued one when I retire here shortly. I would not hesitate to "take it into battle".
But the USP Compact is the one that stays with me constantly. Mine has the LEM trigger, which I feel is superior for close-range pistol fighting. And, IMO the HK is just on a higher level of quality overall.
.