Sig not returning to battery

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RobertInIowa

New member
I have a Sig P226 X-Five in .40 cal and the gun is continually jamming. Specifically, not returning to battery when feeding, whether it is the 1st round or a follow up shot I am getting about a 20% failure rate. The rounds appear to "bind" when attempting to feed. I shoot both handloads and factory rounds and am having the same issue with each. I regularly clean it so residue should not be an issue.

The spring in the pistol is EXTREMELY strong, making the initial charging of the gun very difficult and also subject to the same jamming issue. At first I was almost exclusively shooting handloads and assumed my skills were below par thus causing the problem. I have tried different COAL's and varying the powder charge as well as using a lee factory crimp die.

My first impressions was that the COAL must be off, or at least disliked by my gun. Next I thought that perhaps the extreme strength of the spring might be pushing the bullet back just enough to slow the action and cause it to jam. Now, I have been buying factory ammo and am having the same issues. The gun jams (often) when charging it with the first round, which is very difficult due to the strength of the spring as well as during follow up shots.

Is it possible the spring is just too strong? I'm a little dumbfounded and a lot frustrated with the situation and am looking to you guys for help.

What do you think?
 
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Misssissippi Dave

New member
It is possible the pistol is short stroking. Is the case in front of the extractor? This would put the bullet too far forward and cause problems feeding. I suggest removing the spring and guide pin. If you can make up some dummy rounds (no primer or powder) then try hand cycling them to see what happens. You will need to use a little speed to get them to cycle is everything is working properly. If it does function well this way try a lighter slide spring. Remember the tight end of the spring goes on the guide pin. The other way will cause jamming. I have had some problems with new springs in the past. I found locking the slide to the rear for a few days works to break them in. Once this has been done it never needs to be done again for that spring.
 
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bamaranger

New member
mags?

That SIG oughta run like a sewing machine. In auto pistols, function is very dependent on 1) ammo, and 2) magazines. You discuss ammo a good bit, but I see no mention of mags.

Do you have genuine factory mags, and do you have more than one mag? Mags can get personalities, and some off brand mags are plain junk.

I'd look at mags next.
 
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RobertInIowa

New member
Mississippi Dave, the cases appear to be properly in the extractor when the round jams. I will try what you suggest with the dummy rounds and see if it looks like a spring issue. This is my first Sig, but I am supprised it takes so much effort to charge the first round. I've had to do it for other men who didn't have the strength to stroke the slide all the way.

bamaranger, I hadn't considered the magazines. The pistol came with two factory mags and I bougt two additional mags that came in Sig packaging but it's possible I got taken in by knock offs I suppose. I will take a close look at all 4 mags and see how they compare. I'll try a little testing with each mag and see if the problem links to any specific magazine(s).

Thanks guys for the suggestions, I'll post back after I try each test.
 
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80viking

New member
I suggest that you remove the barrel from the gun and by hand chamber a good ammount of each lot of ammo you are using. The cartridges should drop right in and headspace on the case mouth if your barrel is clean. I suspect you may have a tight chamber.
 
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RobertInIowa

New member
80viking, I tried that and had no issues with rounds fitting in the chamber. I was hoping it was something that simple, but no go. Thanks for the suggestion though.:)
 
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BigJimP

New member
I have a Sig X-Five in .40S&W ....and it has not had a feeding problem../ but that recoil spring is stout !! --- much heavier than the standard Sig 226 in a .40S&W ...

Is the gun new out of the box ?

Did this happen when it was brand new ....or has it developed over time ?

Shape or bullet / grain - bullet mfg you're using ( not sure why it would matter - just searching for ideas ?

Is there a chance you're bumping the mag release..,,,/ mine is extended, and I've bumped it a few times..../ it won't have to release much to cause this problem. There are 4 versions of the X-Five....mine is the one with the adj trigger..SAO ...and all of its mags have the bright alloy base pad on the mags .../ and I don't know if a standard sig 226 .40 S&W mag will work in the X-Five -- or if it varies with which version of the X-Five you have.
 
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Walt Sherrill

New member
I also have an X-Five in .40 -- and the recoil spring is so stout that it's impossible to release the slide using the slide release. It's hard to do it using the slide release AND just pulling back on the slide! I can't imagine trying to use this gun in competition as it is, today.

Mine was bought used, but hadn't been more than a few rounds. The trigger was heavy. I replaced the hammer spring with one about four pounds lighter, and now the trigger is quite nice, and I've had no ignition problems.
Changing out the hammer spring made all the difference in the world. It went from what seemed MUCH HEAVIER than the supposedly stock 4.5 lbs to about 3 lbs, with a clean break.

I bought a lighter 226 recoil spring from Wolff, but it doesn't work. (The stock X-Five spring is a twisted wire spring, while the standard 226 spring is just a coil spring. The stock X-Five spring is somewhat shorter -- but uses a different guide rod.)

I need to call SIG and see about getting a lighter recoil spring.
 
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BigJimP

New member
We need to be careful here ...that we don't confuse the issue.../ especially if we start talking about triggers ( which the OP didn't bring up ) ....but in the X-Five series of guns ....there are 4 very different models...

http://www.sigsauer.com/CatalogProductList/pistols-p226-x-five.aspx
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X-Five - has an adjustable trigger in it / SAO -- this version has its own mag ( this is the version I have in .40S&W ). Trigger is adj from 2 - 4 lbs - and you can lock it down ...after you set it.

X-Five compeitioin - 4.5 lb trigger, SAO ( not the adj trigger ) ...I think this version uses a standard Sig 226 mag.

X-Five Tactical - 4.5 lb trigger, SAO - again, I think using the standard mag - but I think this version is in 9mm only.

X-Five All Around... standard DA/SA trigger in it ...
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Changing the hammer strut spring / or mainspring in one of these versions ...will affect each one of them differently.
 
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Walt Sherrill

New member
Mags...

I mentioned the trigger because it's seldom you find a message chain with a number of X-Five owners. <grin> Seemed too good to pass up. Ditto the following comments about mags.

I can't address the X-Five All-Round model, but the other X-Fives all use their own special mag. I think the standard 226 mag will also work, though.

CDNN has some 226 mags that they advertize as 15+2 rounds. I bought several, because they looked like the factory X-Five mags. http://www.cdnninvestments.com/22640152anma.html

Turns out, they are almost identical to the factory mags, and will work with the 226 X-Five, if you take a little plastic off of the top of the base, where it bumps the X-Five mag well. A file and sandpaper will do the job -- And there's plenty of plastic in that area, so there's no risk of breaking/damaging the mag and causing a failure.

They're Mec-Gar mags. The mags show 13 rounds on the tube and have a +2 base plate, so they may eventually hold 15 rounds. They're only $30, much less than the factory X-Five mags (which I've seen going for around $80). The factory mags are made by Mec-Gar and show 14 rounds!

My new mags only hold 14 rounds, but it may be they just need to break in (like some Glock mags.) I won't be surprised if they eventually will take 15 rounds.

I think these CDNN mags will work in the standard 226. CDNN doesn't list them as X-Five mags; just as standard 226 mags. (They have them for both 9mm and .40.)


.
 
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BigJimP

New member
ok, Robert so we know which model you have now...

what about the other questions I asked in 5 posts back ...
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( since you have the X-Five mags in the gun ...we can probably rule out the mags as an issue )...unless some of them don't have the shiny metal base plate on them...?/ meaning they were aftermarket mags...?? what are they?

I think we know the main spring or hammer spring has nothing to do with the issue..
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RobertInIowa

New member
BigJimP

Is the gun new out of the box ?
(I purchased the gun new about a year ago)

Did this happen when it was brand new ....or has it developed over time ?
(This did not happen when it was new, it developed over time)

Shape or bullet / grain - bullet mfg you're using ( not sure why it would matter - just searching for ideas ?
(I am using 180 gr Hornady FMJ's, reloaded over 5 gr titegroup and various factory ammo. As the factory ammo is gone, I don't recall the exact makeup of them. I believe they were 180 gr winchester FMJ's)

Is there a chance you're bumping the mag release..,,,/ mine is extended, and I've bumped it a few times..../ it won't have to release much to cause this problem. There are 4 versions of the X-Five....mine is the one with the adj trigger..SAO ...and all of its mags have the bright alloy base pad on the mags .../ and I don't know if a standard sig 226 .40 S&W mag will work in the X-Five -- or if it varies with which version of the X-Five you have.
(No, there is no chance I am bumping the mag release. All of the magazines look the same, all having the gright alloy base pad on them)

I am trying to remember if the issue may have started in the timeframe of when I purchased the two new factory magazines, but I don't exactly recall.

Thank you for your input.

Robert
 
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BigJimP

New member
ok, good ....we're at least eliminating somethings...
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so its something that's evolved...
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The first thing I'd do is take the mags apart and clean them. I'd lube the springs " very lightly" ... and put the mags back together.
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I'm assuming the gun is clean ...

If you haven't stripped it down to a bare frame....I'd do that / if you're capable of doing it ...( its pretty easy ) ....clean everything .../ lube everything ( I use Break Free ) but whatever you like ...Wilson Combat's Ultima Lube is good stuff too ..

If you don't want to fully strip the gun to a bare frame ...at least get the slide off .../ and the grips off --- and make sure the area inside the mag well ...and the mag chute in the frame is nice and clean and lubed..( and make sure there isn't anything stuck somewhere ...( like a piece of a Q tip or a little piece of a paper towel or a cleaning patch or something that doesn't belong...)
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I'd then take a permanent marker and put a number on the bottom of each mag....( put masking tape on it - if you want --- but the black sharpie markers come off pretty easy / and shoot the gun with each mag you have ...( put 50 rds thru each mag ) ....and see if you can isolate this thing to one or two mags...

If they fail ...put a mark on the base pad ...like a " / / / " ... etc...with your marker...and see if you find a trend / maybe all of them ---maybe one only ??
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If you have a buddy that's an experienced shooter ....( just in case ) ....have him run the mags you have issues with --- thru the gun / see if he has the same issues...( not saying you're bumping the mag release ) ...but just as another set of hands and eyes on the gun and the issues..
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Isolate the mags with the issues ....If the gun now runs 100% with the other mags --- talk to Sig - and tell them you have X number of rds thru the gun / you're having issues with the mags...what do they recommend / will they look at them - consider rebuilding them --- or send you some new springs and some new followers..( in case that is the issue ) / or at least sell you some parts to rebuild the mags - and see what happens.

and let us know what you find...
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Not to make you feel better...but yesterday one of my .44 mag S&W revolvers started acting up ...light primer strikes../ I took 4 of the rounds home that did not fire ( even on 2 trys ) .../ checked my reloads ...for bad primer seating( all ok), pulled the bullets on the 4 rds ...and 4 other rds as a control in the same box - checked the powder drop with my scale...and everything was 100% ok ??? I had a thought ( this was a 3" ported gun / that does jump around a little when you fire it with full power loads ..and I had a set of Hogue rubber grips on it ...) its a mod 629 - a RSR gun that I bought used about 5 yrs ago ( and it has 5,000 rds thru it at least since I've owned it ) - and I fully stripped it and checked everything when I bought it ... but still ??? ...I thought maybe the strain screw on the main spring - in the frame was loose ....and sure enough I took the grips off ( because they hide the screw from sight ) ...the strain screw was loose ...I red locktighted it into the frame / tightened it down good - and went back to the range....and ran 100 rds thru the gun again ...and the gun ran 100%.

Sometimes its the simple things...and it takes a while to sort it out. The X-Five models we both have ....are way too nice a gun / not to get this figured out . I hope you have some patience...and can work thru it ...and find something that makes sense. I'd easily be as aggravated as you are ...but even if none of this works ...you can write a nice letter to Sig service center ..on what you've done / how you checked it - etc ...if you need to send it back to them - to have the pros look at it. and good Luck / lets hope its something simple .../ and we'll both learn something !

and let us know what happens / drop me a PM if I can help !
 
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RobertInIowa

New member
Well, I was all set up to test the magazines today, went to the range, loaded up, numbered the mags and got part way through the first mag (no jams) when my hammer decocked while firing.

I carefully removed the mag, emptied the chamber and inspected the gun but could not find anything unusual. So I loaded two rounds in the mag to see if this would happen again, and it did. After I unloaded a second time, I found that with the hammer back, I could push on it slightly from any direction and it would decock. It wasn't striking the firing pin but the test was easily repeated.

I don't know if there is something out of adjustment with the adjustable trigger or if there is a defect of some kind, but I'm stopping any further testing until I have Sig check the gun out. I'll give them a call and see what they say, but I found a few similar stories on youtube where parts needed to be replaced. I'll post again after I talk to Sig.

Thanks everyone.
 
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BigJimP

New member
good luck...

I agree with your approach on this - based on what you've found.../ something is certainly wrong.
 
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RobertInIowa

New member
Got my Sig back

So Sig gave me a postage paid address label to send in my Sig for a look see. It left on a Thursday and came back the following Thursday. Now that's good service! I seems that a damaged seer was causing the problems. Their report was (all free of charge) replacement of a damaged seer, polishing the feed ramp and running 100 rounds through it to verify it was working.

After I looked it over I went straight to the range and put about 250 rounds through it and it ran like a scalded dog. Not one hickup.

Thanks to everyone who posted for me, it's greatly appreciated.:) I am one happy Sig owner.
 
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BigJimP

New member
Great news ....thanks for sharing the results on what caused it / and that Sig did a nice job in taking care of it.
 
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