Sig Export Ban....

[Skans]

So, I guess Sig hasn't been exporting German made X-Fives to the US for at least a year now? Maybe longer. I haven't been on top of this because I have one X-Five, but recently thought about getting another since I like the one I have so much. Am I to assume that all of the German made X-Fives that are in the US are it, and no more to come for a long, long time if ever?

 

[lifesizepotato]

That is correct. There has been talk of opening the Mastershop in the US but I wouldn't count on it happening soon.

 

[UncleEd]

Didn't know what an X-Five is.

Yes, possibly I do live a sheltered life.

So I looked it up: Seems it's a fat but good looking variation of the 1911.

Yes, I'm possibly very ignorant as well.

 

[lifesizepotato]

It's a refined, competition-oriented version of Sig's own P226, typically with better accuracy, finishing and triggers.

 

[Nathan]

Why did they stop sending them over?

 

[Skans]

From what I read, it had something to do with Sigs being supplied to Columbia. The restriction is on Germany's end, not the US. I just wish I could purchase the adjustable trigger parts for my X-Five Competition. It's a fine shooting gun without the adjustable trigger, I'd just like the option.

 

[TunnelRat]

To expand on Skans, this is my limited understanding. Germany has fairly strong restrictions on exports. SIG had a large contract for pistols to Colombia (the SP2022) for the Colombian National Police. In order to bypass some of those restrictions or expedite the process (I'm not sure which) they shipped the pistols to SIG USA who then shipped the pistols to Colombia. The German government then punished SIG Germany for this action.


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[lifesizepotato]

I just wish I could purchase the adjustable trigger parts for my X-Five Competition. It's a fine shooting gun without the adjustable trigger, I'd just like the option

There is a guy named Tim Roth on SigTalk forum who, at least last I checked several months ago, was importing parts like that from Germany.

 

[BigJimP]

I think it's been closer to 4 or 5 years since they have imported any new X Five L1 models with the adjustable triggers in them...../ I have an L1 model in .40 S&W that I bought some yrs ago when they were pretty new on market ....and about 4 or 5 yrs ago I wanted another one in 9mm and the dealers / distributors could not get them so I called Sig and about all they said was the production was postponed on the model and they hoped it would continue soon....and I gave up on it a few months later....

At the same time I asked if they had X five L1 mags available with the alloy base plates ( giving it the 2 extra rounds capacity) and they said no.../ so I gave up the search even on gun broker if I couldn't get 6 extra mags in 9mm for the gun - because they only came with 2 mags.../ I knew not having the right mags would just irritate me..

While Sig will service an L1 model...I doubt you'll have any luck getting the adjustable trigger system to retrofit a non L1 model....

 

[rt11002003]

I bought a X-5 Competition in early Feb. 2014. Loved it! So, I purchased a X-6 L1 in April, 2014. Really, really loved its trigger.

I ordered a SIG p210 Legend Super Target shortly after getting the X-5. Spent a year waiting for delivery, was promised at least three firm delivery dates. They never shipped me one and finally admitted in late Jan. 2015; they had the export problem.

So, I immediately ordered a X-5 L1. It was delivered in Feb. 2015 with two black 10 round mags labelled SIG SAUER P226 9mm. Those mags never worked in the L1. I found out the mags with the silver base plates were not available, anywhere. Finally, bought mags with black base plates that work perfectly. Unfortunately, I had gotten rid of the X-5 Competition before discovering the mag issue.

Actually, I could tell no difference in shooting the Competition and the L1. The adjustable triggers of the X-5 L1 and X-6 L1 are great allowing me to get really light trigger pull; and, the triggers are unbelievably smooth.

I've had good experience with SIG guns, both US made and German made models. However, their business practices are another story. Putting me off for a year on the p210 Legend was bad enough, but selling me the X-5 L1 with mags that won't work was too much for me.

 

[rt11002003]

BigJimP, the L1 triggers modules were not available when I bought the Competition in 2014. I checked. In fact, I was told by SIG, the modules were NOT interchangable. However, judging my relationship with SIG, that may, or am not, be correct.

 

[BigJimP]

I don't think they are interchangeable either..but i'm not sure.

And don't get me wrong...I like the Sig X-5 L1 model I have in .40 S&W ...and while I gave up finding one in 9mm ...even if I had purchased one in 9mm, it never would have been a better gun than my Wilson Combat 5" all stainless Protector model in 9mm, I bought about 10 yrs ago now...( in my opinion of course )...it just would have been something different.

http://thefiringline.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=90272&d=1372200117

Here is my L1 model in .40 S&W...
http://thefiringline.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=86634&d=1359744729

I have a pair of the older model Sig 226's, all stainless models, that are no longer made in this configuration...both DA/SA standard Sig triggers...one in 9mm and one in .40 S&W...with a Sig .22 conversion kit as well for the 226 model....

http://thefiringline.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=89166&d=1367446255

They're solid guns as well...but I never carry them / I do carry the Wilson 9mm Protector model all the time....but I've kept the Sig 226's and the X-5 ..to pass down to my adult kids one of these days. ( I don't shoot them hardly at all --- although I did have the X-5 at the range on Tue ...and put a box thru it).

 

[Skans]

The level 1 trigger module would fit my X-Five Competition. Same frame, it even has the trigger adjustment holes machined into it. Now, the trigger on my Competition model feels perfect to me - I really don't think I need the adjustable trigger. It's just something I'd like to have the opportunity to play with on my Competition model.

 

[Rinspeed]

Such a shame that Sig Germany is all but done but if you want to try to scam government regulations you better be prepared to pay the price. They knew exactly what they were doing but tried to hide it.

The only ones who will suffer is us. Sadly, those goofballs in NH will never be able come close in quality, that's been proven many times.

 

[TunnelRat]

Sadly, those goofballs in NH will never be able come close in quality, that's been proven many times.

I've owned SIG USA products that were rock solid. I've also seen those that certainly weren't. To me it's not that SIG USA can't produce a good product. It's that the QC is such that your chances of getting a lemon are higher than I'd like. That said, supposedly before Cohen took over SIG USA they were close to failing. Cohen boosted production to levels that absolutely dwarf the old days. The QC issues are the unfortunate side effect.

 

[Rinspeed]

I've owned SIG USA products that were rock solid. I've also seen those that certainly won't. To me it's not that SIG USA can't produce a good product. It's that the QC is such that your chances of getting a lemon are higher than I'd like. That said, supposedly before Cohen took over SIG USA they were close to failing. Cohen boosted production to levels that absolutely dwarf the old days. The QC issues are the unfortunate side effect.

Even though I've busted you're balls a couple times, when we disagree, I really respect your opinion and I hope you know that. I too have been a solid advocate for some of the Exeter made Sigs especially the ones made in the 90's and early 2000's. In fact I'm a firm believer that the mid 90's 220s and 226's were better pistols than most made in Germany before them. A lot of the parts came from Germany and in the early days they were just doing assembly with some of the parts made here.

I do disagree that Sig USA was on the downward spiral before Cohen took over. They had a bunch of huge contracts then and some they lost but they have also picked a few over the last ten or twelve years. I think their biggest downfall, on the consumer end of things, is when they decided it was too expensive to test fire all pistols they sell.

 

[TunnelRat]

I do disagree that Sig USA was on the downward spiral before Cohen took over

For the record, that's what Cohen says and not my own assessment. Certainly it's self serving of him to say that, but it is his claim. As I've mentioned I do know some folks at the factory currently and some folks that have been with SIG since Tyson's Corner. There are loads of opinions in this area and I am far from an expert.

http://www.managementtoday-magazine.com/index.php/featured-content/245-sig-sauer-inc

 

[rt11002003]

I've put more than 6,000 rounds thru my X-Series guns; all flawless. I've owned two SIG 1911's, a p232 and two p239's. As you can see I've had an assortment of German and US made models. Not a large sample by any means, but I've been pleased by all of them. I do feel the German guns might be better quality, machining, etc.

I'm also into .22lr pistols. Have a couple of S&W Models 41, a Hammerli Xesse Sport, a HK4, a pair of S&W Models 422 and four Rugers. Out of the factory, my new Rugers have had all kinds of quality problems from sights falling off, to triggers so stiff I could hardly pull them. But, they're inexpensive, there are several aftermarket companies to provide precision parts and Ruger has an outstanding customer service department. My expectations of Ruger have been low, so I haven't been disappointed. My other 22's have been perfect.

SIG's are relatively expensive. The guns I purchased met my expectations, except for the magazines supplied for my X-5 L1. I'm committed to leaving well enough alone with SIG. After the p210 Legend fiasco and the magazines that don't work in my X-5,; I don't trust them to do right by a customer and won't ever buy another gun from them. This is from a consumer who has purchased more than 50 pistols in the last two years.

 

[TunnelRat]

I do feel the German guns might be better quality, machining, etc.

I can agree with that. I've seen SIGs as old as me that still look and function great.

 

[Rinspeed]

For the record, that's what Cohen says and not my own assessment. Certainly it's self serving of him to say that, but it is his claim.

Thanks for the link, I forgot that you know a couple folks that work there. I found this statement by Cohen to be very interesting because most hardcore Sig fans I know think bringing so many different models to market has been a huge factor in their "apparent" decline in quality. I don't have a lot of experience with newer Sigs, other than a couple pistols, but I do know they have put out quite a few dogs over the last 10-15 years.

Good friend of mine bought a new Sig AR last year against my advice. It shoots good but feels very cheap compared to what he could have purchased for the same $800. As I've said a few times there are so many good deals out there on used pistols made 20 years ago I have no idea why anyone would buy a new one from most manufacturers. The price keeps going up and the quality keeps going down. I would be interested to know how many of you agree with my opinion.

As a result, SIG SAUER has brought more products to the marketplace in the past four years than it has since it was established in the United States 25 years ago.