Should we weigh 22LR for better accuracy?

M

Mr.RevolverGuy

New member
Ok I know this has been debated a number of times and this is not meant to start an a big bruhaha.

I got the ProChrono Digital-Link add on which allows you to control the unit via bluetooth and gives you some additional information like barometric pressure and temperature as well as timing of each shot. For these test I am using an IPhone to control and record everything from the Digital Link module.

In testing this product today and watching what was happening on my target this question came back up for me. Should I be weighing these cartridges? Seeing so many comment that this procedure made no difference I have never tried it, but now I am wondering if the old benchrest marksmen knew something or had some knowledge that has slipped away with time.

I also know that most discussions have said it depends upon ammo. Well I did test Wolf Match Extra, SK Standard Plus and CCI SV today across 4 rifles and saw the same patterns on target.

Curious of your thoughts about what I noticed today. Would I have even seen a difference in weight of these cartridges?
Digital Link
DSC02712.jpg

Anschutz Weaver 3-9
DSC02716.jpg

Target 5 shots fired at 50 yards:The two shots on the outside of the group are the first two shots. Pay close attention to how they registered across the chronograph. These shots would be numbers 11-15
DSC02718.jpg

Data From Digital Link Pro Chronograph
Chrono.jpg

Chronograph Data/Graph Generated by Digital Link:Shots 11 and 12 were my first shots on the target and were the outermost, which at first made it seem as if it were going to be a large group but the last 3 shots, 13, 14, 15 tightened things up quite a bit.
Image-1.jpg


I will be posting more pictures and data from the other rifles and ammo at http://www.dayattherange.com
 
H

Hal

New member
Should we weigh 22LR for better accuracy?
Click to expand...
A good decade and a half ago I used to belong to a .22 benchrest shooters forum.
Weighing and separating individual rounds by weight was just an accepted thing they did.
 
N

NoSecondBest

New member
Weighing .22lr cartridges is a total waste of time. Some of the best ammo I ever shot had the greatest weight variation. Eley was one of them. I used this same ammo to shoot multiple, multiple perfect 60x60s with an open sighted handgun. I once shot 9x10 rifle chickens for a shoot off at the regional shoot at 100 yards...open sighted handgun. As far as I know that record has never been broken. There are simply too many variables in .22lr ammo to make it worth while. However, it gives you something to do if you're bored.:)

Note: the handgun I used was a ten inch Browning Buckmark completely stock in the production auto class. It would shoot better than my Anschutz Exemplar unlimited gun.
 
K

kilimanjaro

New member
From that grouping I would conclude that any perceived improvement in accuracy due to weighing would be just as likely to result from transient aim-breathe-trigger-emotional differences on the part of the shooter than any unknown factor that may or may not be associated with the weight of the round.

If you want to enjoy Christmas week, however, you should take 100 rounds, disassemble them and weigh each component separately, to determine where the variability in energy might lie, then build a set of rounds with exactly equal component weights, brass, powder, bullet, and try those out for grouping.

Problem is, the weight of the primer charge is going to be completely unknown, and introduce another variable into the brass selection. Which, brings you right back to where you began. Luck, joss, fate, heart rate, breathing control, eye-hand coordination, a bit of underdone potato or a dot of mustard, as Ebenezer Scrooge would have put it. Humbug.

So you'll be chasing your ballistic tail for an improvement in shot group you may never achieve due to the Peter Principle of Ballistics, which is you shoot as well as your training and abilities allow to shoot, and no better.

As Scrooge so ably put it, those who go around with 'Weigh the Ammo' on their lips should be boiled in Hoppe's No. 9 and buried with a cleaning rod through their hearts'. Humbug.
 
E

Erno86

New member
Besides weighing 22lr...a 22 rim thickness gauge will also help. I forgot the makers name for my rim gauge --- I'll maybe tell you tomorrow.
 
H

Hal

New member
That was the other thing the benchrest guys did just as SOP - the further separated round by rim thickness.
 
4

4EVERM-14

New member
Years ago I spoke at length with a well known,at the time, smallbore competitor. As part of a small business supplying first class ammunition he had a series of tests to determine the potential of a 'lot'[ 30000rds] of ammunition from wholesalers. Included in the testing was weighing cartridges. Based on his statements to me Weighing is one of several ways to segregate cartridges for highest potential accuracy. This was limited to the top or elite offerings from the European makers. Eley, RWS, Lapua, etc. The lowers grades showed other traits that made weighing less then effective.
 
N

NoSecondBest

New member
Years ago I spoke at length with a well known,at the time, smallbore competitor. As part of a small business supplying first class ammunition he had a series of tests to determine the potential of a 'lot'[ 30000rds] of ammunition from wholesalers. Included in the testing was weighing cartridges. Based on his statements to me Weighing is one of several ways to segregate cartridges for highest potential accuracy. This was limited to the top or elite offerings from the European makers. Eley, RWS, Lapua, etc. The lowers grades showed other traits that made weighing less then effective.
Click to expand...
I've sorted thousands of rounds by weight and I retired as a statistical engineer for the auto industry. I can assure you that weighing rimfire ammo is a waste of time. I have also played around with measuring rim thickness and it's almost as useless waste of time as weighing them. I haven't met many rimfire shooters anywhere who were actually at the top of their game who believed either method was worth the effort as it never provided consistent results. Go over to rimfirecentral.com and put that question up over there. Some really good shoots, the better shooters, will share their experiences with you along those lines. As I stated above, I had as good a results shooting Eley and setting records as any other ammo and it was all over the place on weight and the rim thickness was nothing to write home about either. I simply just tried it all and used what provided the best results and then bought case quantities. Even some of the cheap ammo would occasionally shoot very well, just not lot to lot.
 
4

4EVERM-14

New member
One should never exclude psychology when dealing with shooters and gun people . If a particular process is believed to offer a possible advantage, regardless of any statistical data to the contrary, then it is worth the effort to those who believe in it. This is the same as wearing a pair of lucky socks to a match or refusing to wash a favorite sweatshirt because of wearing it at successful outings [not that I have any experience with such things]. Shooters will follow the winners and what they shoot,what they use and what they do. Weighing bullets can be one of those. Don't confuse us with statistics.
 
N

NoSecondBest

New member
One should never exclude psychology when dealing with shooters and gun people . If a particular process is believed to offer a possible advantage, regardless of any statistical data to the contrary, then it is worth the effort to those who believe in it. This is the same as wearing a pair of lucky socks to a match or refusing to wash a favorite sweatshirt because of wearing it at successful outings [not that I have any experience with such things]. Shooters will follow the winners and what they shoot,what they use and what they do. Weighing bullets can be one of those. Don't confuse us with statistics.
Click to expand...

I can honestly say that I've never seen even one of the "Lucky Charms" people win at a match....except in the lowest classes. It's "magical thinking"....look that up, it's a real term.
 
S

Slamfire

New member
I am shooting just a little less than 5000 rounds a year in Smallbore Prone Competition. I don't have the time to weight sort ammunition and I don't know a single competitor who does. I would be curious to know if any did. I talked to the 2010 Smallbore National Champion, he tests ammunition. He does a lot of ammunition testing. He tests lots and buys the best lot for his rifle. He shoots $600.00 worth of match ammunition setting the tuner on his rifle, but he did not spend any time weighing match ammunition.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top