Should I make my preban AR an SBR?

[dustindu4]

I recently bought a preban Bushmaster for $1000 (good deal). To make a long story short, the barrel itself is junk (not Bushmaster) and I need to get a new one. Now I was thinking of registering it as an Short Barreled Rifle and putting an M4 14.5" Bushmaster barrel on it. That and a collapsable stock. The way I figure it is that I want it to be more collectable. I know the 14.5" is going to be less accurate than a 16" or 20" but it's better than putting a 14.5" barrel w/ 1.5" fixed flash hider. If I want accurate target shooting I'll get a DCM Bushmaster Post ban.

Is there anything negative about coverting it to NFA? What do you guys think?

 

[KSFreeman]

What is it with the SBRs? SBRs and en bloc clips, I'm odd man out around here, I guess.

Can't you take the carbine class at the SIG Academy for the cost in money and time that the conversion will take? Heck if it's your first NFA it may take up to 9-12 months (depending on the Form you choose to go with).

I'd go to skul and forget out the conversion. YMMV.

 

[Sundance]

If you plan on keeping it forever and just want a SBR, I say go for it. If you think you will ever sell it, I say no way. This will kill your resale ability. Few people will want to go through the hassle and expense of the NFA/Class 3 process just to buy your used gun. Few dealers will take one in on trade knowing it will be hard to resell due to the above reasons. Furthermore it is a big headache for only 1.5 inches difference. Now if we were talking a shotgun cut from 18 to 12 inches, or a select fire weapon, that is a different story.

 

[rocko]

Yeah, I'd say "collectability" (if you mean value/resale value) is going to fall through the floor if you SBR it. Once an SBR, always an SBR no matter what upper you were to put on it. Most folks building an M4gery aren't opposed to the 1.5" fixed flash hider and aren't going to want to fork over the extra $200 tax and all the associated hassle if you ever decide to sell it.

Only thing I would ever really consider SBR'ing would be a pistol caliber carbine like an HK-94, or if you want to do a 9mm AR... You know, stuff that looks especially stupid with the 16" barrel. Maybe a shotgun as well, if I was going for the "entry" look. I don't think you really gain a whole heck of alot SBR'ing your rifle just to get the 100% correct barrel profile and not have to permanently fix the F/S. If it was a private, in state sale with no paperwork, then definitely don't SBR it. May as well keep it off the books if that's the way it currently is.

Rocko

 

[dustindu4]

Well I thought the SBR tax is only $5 isn't it?

 

[Dizzipator]

If you want to go SBR, why not go all the way:

Of course you won't be able to use a bayonet, but who cares. With a collapsible stock and an 11.5" barrel you would have a very compact package indeed.

Heck, if you've got the $$$, get both uppers!

 

[swampgator]

So, just how much of a market is there for a bayonet with a uhm, 3" grip?

 

[dustindu4]

I was under the impression that the 11.5" barrels were LOUD. Higher pressure and all compared to a 16" or 20" when those gases come out.

 

[KSFreeman]

dustin, depends on which form you go with. AoW v. SBR. Also depends on how you value your hour.

To me knowledge is far more important than gear (especially this kind of stuff). I'd shoot what I had and go to skul. But that's me.

 

[JIH]

Honestly, if it were my choice, I'd rather go the full Class III route (select fire) if I were even going to start the process. It's a PITA either way you go, might as well get the most bang for your buck and time.

 

[Christopher II]

Eh. Cutting an AR barrel down past 16" kills a lot of the utility of the rifle. You lose effective range, accuracy (due to a short sight radius,) and reliability. Leave it as it is, spend the money elsewhere, at most put a new name-brand 20" tube on it.

Unless, of course, you clear out a lot of crowded elevators?

- Chris

 

[dustindu4]

Honestly, if it were my choice, I'd rather go the full Class III route (select fire) if I were even going to start the process. It's a PITA either way you go, might as well get the most bang for your buck and time.

How do you figure that? It's my understanding that you can get an M16 in only 2 ways:

1) getting a registered drop in auto sear (cost: $5k)

2) getting a registered m16 lower receiver (cost: $5k-$7k) This is obviously the better alternative because a receiver is going to last a hell of a lot longer than a sear.

 

[Jason280]

With a pre-ban, I wouldn't do it. Like it's said above, once it has been registered as a SBR, it will always be one, even if it has a 24" target upper. If you try to sell it, the buyer will also have to pay the $200 transfer tax. The $5 applies to short-barreled PISTOL shotguns, not shotguns with a pistol grip. As far as accuracy concerns, the idea that a SBR is less accurate than a 16-20" barrel is BS. You may be able to shoot a longer barrel more accurately because of the longer sight radius, but that is about it. In theory, a shorter barrel can be inherently more accurate due to the rigidity of the barrel, but this isn't always true. Accuracy is dependant upon many things, and barrel length usually isn't one of them.

I have fired a full-auto 7.5" Commando, and it is very loud, plus it shoots a huge flame out of the barrel (very cool looking). If you want a CQB weapon, than a short-barrel AR is a great choice. I am currently building one with an 11.5" upper and collapsable stock. I considered using a 9mm upper, but the magazines are too expensive. Plus, since I have other AR's, I wanted to keep all my magazines the same.

The cool thing about a registered short-barrel AR is the fact the lower is the only registered part of the gun. That means you can have as many short-barreled uppers as you want.

 

[rocko]

The $5 tax is the transfer tax on an AOW. An AOW cannot ever have been configured to be fired from the shoulder. Further, the tax for manufacturing an AOW is still the normal $200. Most people get around this by "selling" the firearm to an SOT, having them perform with work, and the SOT sells/transfers it back for the $5 fee. In order to have a pre-ban AOW, you'd need to use a pre-ban pistol lower. Of course, that we would pointless as there is no such thing as a pre-ban AOW - they are not regulated by the 1994 crime bill. You can add as many "evil" features as you want.... as long as you don't add a stock. Since you stated your intent was to have it as close to a real M4 as possible, this is obviously not the route you want to go.

Both the tax on manufacture and transfer of an SBR is $200.

Rocko

 

[ajacobs]

I have an sbr but went with a 10" barrell from busy (when they still sold them). I think it isn't worth it as many people described above for 1.5 inches. I would rather spend the tax money on a suppresor stamo if my state allowed.

 

[dustindu4]

I would rather spend the tax money on a suppresor stamo if my state allowed.

Good point. Maybe I'll just buy a suppressor instead and just get a 16" barrel. Thanks guys.

 

[johnwill]

Here's my AR15.COM LEGP rifle, it has a full 16" barrel, with a pretty decent looking fake flash hider on it, all post-ban legal. Since I'd rather have the extra barrel length, and have very little use for the flash hider, this works well for me.

 

[Southern Raider]

There is a major misconception in this thread. Once an SBR always an SBR is not true. SBRs can be removed from the registry by filing the appropriate paperwork with the ATF and fixing the dimensions that make the weapon an SBR. Machineguns must be removed by demilling (cutting up) the receiver.

The AR15 can be made into an AOW (any other weapon) by creating a configuration with no buttstock and a foregrip. (An AR15 pistol with a foregrip) However, you must start with a receiver that is virgin or came from a pistol. Once a stock has been attached, this route is no longer an option. AOWs are $200 to make but $5 to transfer.

My major concern is that the ATF classifies manufacturing as an activity where an excise tax is due. i.e. the $200 tax to "make" an SBR. In other words, I am fairly sure that even if you started with a legal pre-ban rifle, the resulting product is considered newly manufactured and cannot have the pre-ban features.