Should I get a K-frame or L-frame S&W?

[croyance]

As I look around for a range gun, I have found a used S&W 686 7-shot in my area. It has a 6" barrel. In its favor are the heavier frame and easier to see sights. With that forward-heavy balance, it should just soak up recoil.
However, it does not feel as nimble in the hand as the S&W 19-3 6" barrel I found. But as a range gun, that has limited utility. I have other guns for home defense (.45 ACPs). Also, S&W claims they discontinued the K-frames because it could only withstand limited amounts of .357 Magnums. Then again, as a range gun, it will mostly be eating .38 Specials. The blueing is nice too. It seems warmer than the stainless steel of the 686.
Considering that, which would your choise be?

 

[Sir William]

S&Ws hype of the strength and durability of their L frames is just that. I have only seen forcing cone problems on -5 M19s. I have yet to see a M13 with any problems unless they were abused or had overpressure stresses from super hot handloads. The 586/686 is a fair 357 Magnum in 6 shot form. I don't care for the 7 shot models as I feel they are thin in the locking notches and many of them experience timing problems and total lockup even. I have experienced this. I loaded a 686+ with 7 rounds of simple 180 gr Winchester Supreme black box 357 Magnums and closed the cylinder. It completely locked up. I cannot put any faith in such performance. It turned out to be a lack of final fitting/QC. The thumblatch was inoperable due to the ejector rod length. The star and ejector were proud of their positions, when loaded, the cylinder couldn't stand the cartridge heads, the excess tolerances and allow the thumblath to unlatch as there was 0 allowance after the revolver was loaded. Taurus made some models with a similar problem and I have seen many Rugers with rubmarks on their recoil shields also. In short, buy the classic M19 in 6" form. It will outlast us both.

 

[Mastrogiacomo]

I've got two 686P which have never given me trouble except the need for a cleaning on my used model. I've never heard of the his gun to be fragile and it's a lot of fun .

 

[Hal]

I voted K because that "Feel" is telling you something.

The 19-4 can handle 158 gr .357 magnums fine.
The forcing cone issue is mainly centered on the 125 gr. loads.

For the record, I don't run any .357Magnum loads except downloaded handloads through my 6" 19-4 or my 4" 19-3 or my 4" 19-4.
I prefer to use .38's exclusivly or .38 spl level loads in a magnum case.
My choice.
The .357 round itself and I have this understanding.
I don't like it, and it doesn't like me.
It falls into a void with no useful purpose, where the guns I own are concerned.
It offers nothing that can't be done better, and with less all around, by something else. ie: Where the .38 Spl leaves off, the 9mm picks up, and where the 9mm leaves off, the .44mag picks up.
(sorry to have to bore you with so much detail. I only do it because I'm sure to be shellaced for saying I have no use for the .357)

YM is sure to V since the .357 Mag is one of the all time greats.

 

[blume357]

Only experience

I have is with a 19-4...but it is one fine feeling revolver. I have to shoot it double action because the trigger pull is too light for single. But this has taught me a lot and helped me group better.

 

[HSMITH]

I voted K frame, my feelings on the durability of the K frame aren't secret either.

I only have 50K rounds through my 19-4, and over 20K through a couple more.

For a range gun look for an old M14 or M15, the older the better. Nothing else compares.

 

[Hammer It]

Hello
I have a model 66, and if you are looking for Range performance and less recoil.. I would Jump up to the Model 27. They are the nicest balance of any revolver I won, and absorb all the recoil you can send them. Regards, Hammer It.

 

[NB4ZOT]

I have a 686P 6"

Best gun I have ever owned. I've put more hot 180grn rounds thru that thing than I can count. Never had a problem. Its still as tight as a nuns butt. Probably the best trigger, best balanced and most accurate gun that I have shot(well, then again the only other 357 I have shot was the GP-100 and I didn't much care for that). I would like to try the Taurus though.

 

[Rimrod]

The model 19 was the police officers dream gun. It was light weight to carry all day and only had to be shot once a year, usually with .38 reloads. It is a quality piece of equipment. It was understood at the time it was not a heavy duty 'beat it to death because it' can take it firearm. Plus the forcing cone issues were due to metalurgy problems and were more common to the model 66 stainless version. The references to the model 19-5, I would think, would be the same type of problem. The 686 was made to try and regain lost sales to competitors. Many people though the full ejector shroud on the Python was sexy and PPC shooters 'back in the day' wanted heavy barrels so many other people wanted them too. While a heavy barrel does help dampen recoil it also causes more of a strain on the wrist and magnifies the resulting wobble. For a target gun the lighter the barrel the better.

I don't understand how your model 19 6" has limited utility as a range gun since it "IS" a range gun where the 686 is not.

And as far as what S&W says about what S&W does- The company has changed alot since they started years ago and most of hit has been recent. They are probably dropping the k-frame because of poor sales figures or manufacturing changes to cheapen thier guns. When you compare the quality of their products from before to the crap they make now it is disgusting. But what is more disgusting is they still make the best revolver.

Given the two, for a range gun, go with the 19.

 

[k in AR]

We own 586 -3 4", 686 -3 6", and M13 3" (PC model). Each has it's own advantage but all have proven to be very durable. If I'm carrying the M13 is a clear winner, general use the 586, and for target or hunting the 6" barrel on the 686 is really hard to beat.

 

[Jeff #111]

The Model 19 was designed to be a carry gun. Bill Jordan was one of the folks behind the design and he intended it to be loaded with .357 magnums for duty, but mostly fired with .38's on the range. In the fifties this was the training philosophy. Also the standard .357 magnum round in the fifties was the 158 grain JSP. More on this later.

Mr. Jordan knew what it was like carrying an N-frame for hours on end and the K-frame was a better model, but it was designed as a 38 special platform. Smith & Wesson used a special heat treating process on the cylinder, beefed up the barrel and added the lug, but the frame is still relatively light compared to the N-frame or L-frame and the parts are the same size as the 38 models. The Model 19 is no more fragile then any other quality wheelgun, but you have to use some common sense.

In the sixties and seventies the courts handed down several decisions regarding police officers and their firearms. Basically one of the big changes was that officers need to train with the same type of ammo they carry on duty. About this time the 125 grain became the .357 magnum combat round of choice. Officers began putting alot of 125 grain rounds through their Model 19's. The 125 grain is a light hot round and some of the 19's developed cracked forcing cones and they also became "loose". The 125 grain hits the forcing cone with alot more energy then the 158 grain. Many officers also found that the recoil of the Model 19 with magnum rounds was more unpleasent then the N-frame Model 28. Nobody forsaw these changes in the mid-fifties. And that includes the engineers at S&W. Guess they forgot to look into their crystal balls.

S&W wasn't stupid and there was a very real demand in the late seventies for a .357 revolver that had the strength of the N-frame, but wasn't any bigger then the K-frame. Smith came out with the L-frame in 1980 in response to this demand.

It has a beefed up forcing cone, heavy barrel, and was also strengthend internally. It isn't hype. It really is a wheel gun made for heavy .357 magnum usage. I own a 4" 686 seven shopt and I've probably put at least a 1,000 357 rounds and another couple thousand hot 38 rounds through it with no trouble.

The K-frame magnum is a great gun (Model 19/66 and Model 13/65), but there are trade offs. I say go with the 686 if your looking for a range gun that will see heavy usage.