Shot the Sharp's today

[Hawg]

First three rounds with 80 grains of powder. Bullet was a Sharp's ringtail 557-490. Hitting low from 25 yards offhand.



Yeah, that's three holes.



Raised the sights and went to 90 grains and the group widened up and further left.

Went to 100 which is a full chamber and they tightened back up and moved closer to center. Stayed with 100 and used a little kentucky windage and put three just under the tape. Yeah, that's three holes there too.



Dunno what happened with that flyer way low and right but it key holed for some reason. That was with 90 grains. Its the only one that did that.

 

[noelf2]

Hawg I don't think that's good enough for a sharps. I'll take it off your hands if it continues to disappoint you...

 

[Doc Hoy]

Hawg...

That's a paper cutter, right?

Tnx,

 

[Hawg]

Noel, I may end up having to sell it if I don't get to go back to work pretty soon.

Doc, yeah its a .54 paper cutter.

I need to make up some more bullets and bench it. I was just chomping at the bit to shoot it cuz I've had it so long without being able to. I do think I'm going to have to change the rear sight out tho. That was full elevation at 25 yards. Gonna be awhile tho.

 

[Doc Hoy]

Hawg...

Thanks for the wink back.

 

[bedbugbilly]

Nice! How was the recoil with 100 gr? Did it make your teeth chatter or was it bearable? Looks like with a little more tinkering, you'll be able to put one on top of the other. Nice you were able to get out and throw some lead with it . . . thanks for letting us know how it went.

 

[Hawg]

Recoil was noticeable but nowhere near teeth chattering but then I'm not recoil sensitive. I need to bench it but I'm sure the rear sight will need to be changed out since it was at full elevation. The front sight is a brass bead so filing is not an option

 

[Hawg]

Went out today intending to play with the sights some but decided to see what it did from a prop at 40 yards(that's where the shade was). After 7 shots and six out of the navy I was done. I should have popped two caps on it instead of one. The first was a hang fire low right at the 5 ring. Next one brought it up some. and closer to center. Then three in the 8 ring. Used a little Kentucky windage and put two in the bull. I decided I wasn't going to get much better and called it quits at that point. Maybe next time I'll bump the sights over before I even go out.

 

[Bill Akins]

I enjoyed the review and target pics Hawg.



.

 

[Hawg]

Thanks Bill

 

[Sure Shot Mc Gee]

Ring tail shoots pretty good. I wonder if you had went to other way on charge if they wouldn't have lifted a little bit and stayed as tight or tighter. BTW hang fire No way!! I think you must have blinked on that low one didn't yaw._

 

[Hawg]

Yeah it was a hang fire. 80 grains is about as low as I can stand. 100 brings them up and closer to center and they group tighter but its more flash out the bottom than I like.

 

[Bill Akins]

Hawg, couple of questions about your "paper cutter" Sharps.

(For any newbies out there who might not know, a "paper cutter" Sharps means the lever behind the trigger gets levered down and the breech block (which has a sharp edge) drops down to allow you to load a paper cartridge into the chamber from the rear, and then when you raise the lever it raises the breech block back up and the sharp edge of the breech block cuts off the rear of the paper to expose the powder to the percussion cap's flash channel. Kind of like a guillotine blade. That's a "paper cutter").

My questions are:

1. In a regular single shot rifle, we are taught to make sure our powder and ball are tightly all the way down the barrel so there is no air space. But since your Sharps is loaded from the breech (rear), and the paper cartridge will not be as tightly against the breech block (as it would be as pressed down by the ramrod in a regular single shot), it would seem to me that some small air space would be present behind the cut off paper/powder. Also what if you used nitrated paper cartridges and shoved them in so that they didn't stick out for the breech block to cut, (but the flash channel would still set off the nitrated paper), but you shoved the paper cartridge in so far that there was an air space between the paper cartridge's rear and the breech block. Could any of the above mentioned air spaces create any possible overpressure or problems of any kind in that area?

2. I know it is more cumbersome, but you can also load it without a paper cartridge and just point the barrel downward and load using a ball first with powder behind it from the breech, then raise your lever and breech block, cap the nipple and fire. So my question is similar to my first question only difference being you'd be loading with loose powder and ball. When you raised the breech block, wouldn't there be a small air space behind the powder since you didn't ram the powder down tightly against the breech with a ball like you would do when you rammed the ball against the powder in a regular single shot? So same air space question here.

Never owned a "paper cutter" and always wondered about those questions.




.

 

[Hawg]

Sharp's seems to be the exception to the rule on airspace. There is no way to get rid of it completely. If I load a ringtail bullet and then fill the chamber it will hold 100 grains of powder but even that still has an airspace because of the breech block. That load makes very tight groups but has excessive flash out the bottom. I haven't found anything to form paper cartridges with but it appears that it will hold 80 grains with them. I've been loading 80 gains of loose powder and let the air space go hang. I did my research first tho because I had the same questions. This is the main most reason you can't get rid of it. The breechblock has a built in airspace. The breech plate is off in this pic.



The back of the breech plate.

 

[BirchOrr]

Wow!

Nice shootin' Hawg!



Birch

 

[bedbugbilly]

Thanks Bill and Hawg - I have often wondered about the things Bill brought up.

It's been many, MANY years but I had a friend who had a Smith Carbine (an original) that he let me shoot a couple of times back in the early 60s. I know that the Smith utilized a "tube" for holding the powder and slug with a flash hole in the rear - I think I'm remembering that part correctly?

Anyway . . . I'm trying to remember . . . can the Smith be loaded in the same manner that Bill mentions? i.e. the slug inserted followed by loose powder and then closing the breech (without utilizing a "tube" to hold the powder)?

I've never shot a Sharps but I remember the Smith was a lot of fun. Jumpin Jeepers . . . I suppose a guy could get hooked on these carbines just like C & B revolvers and then get in all kinds of trouble with the 'better half"!

 

[Bill Akins]

Hawg Haggen wrote:
Sharp's seems to be the exception to the rule on airspace

Why is that?

Hawg Haggen wrote:
I haven't found anything to form paper cartridges with

Form nitrated paper around a wooden dowel.

Hawg Haggen wrote:
I've been loading 80 gains of loose powder and let the air space go hang.

Is that safe to ignore air space behind the charge and projectile in a barrel?
If so, why?

Hawg Haggen wrote:
I did my research first tho because I had the same questions.

What did your research tell you regarding air space behind the charge and projectile in the barrel like that?

Hawg Haggen wrote:
This is the main most reason you can't get rid of it. The breechblock has a built in airspace.

You mean most people don't want it because of their concerns about an air space behind the charge and projectile in the barrel? Which begs the question of "why?" and if people are concerned about that, that goes back to my question of what did your research tell you about safety and overpressure concerns regarding said air space behind the charge and projectile?





.

 

[Hawg]

First off I cant find a dowel the right size to have bullet and powder together. I could wrap the charge in a smaller or bigger cartridge but to me its kind of defeating the purpose. Paper doesn't have to be nitrated to work. I've always used tea bags for cartridges and they work very well. The charge and projectile are not both in the barrel. The bullet is seated to the first ring in the rifling and the rest sticks out into the chamber which is a lot bigger. Bore size is .544 and the chamber is around .580 or so. A .577 minie will drop right in and no I wouldn't dare try to fire one. The recommended charge is 80 grains but the chamber will hold just over 100, so even with a paper cartridge the chamber isn't filled, plus there's the hole in the breech block. Its not like having both powder and charge in a barrel together with nowhere for the pressure to go. And too the Sharp's chamber isn't airtight. There is some flash out the top and bottom.

You mean most people don't want it because of their concerns about an air space behind the charge and projectile in the barrel?

No I meant you cant get rid of the airspace. That's why I posted the pic of the breech block.

 

[sltm1]

The air space bothered me too when I once owned one, my solution was to buy a set of the brass shells for the Berdan (which won't work in a carbine) and insert the brass washer that came with it that surrounds the flash port....don't know if it helped make the rifle more safe to shoot or not, but it gave me piece of mind. BYT, nice shootin' Hawg!!

 

[Hawg]

Thanks. I know it can do better once I get the sights adjusted. I think I'm going to go to a tang sight once i get back to work and get the bills caught up.