I just got a new GLOCK 17 and I had the salesman put some trijicon night sites on it in the store. I am not sure whether to blame the sights or myself. At ten meters I my groups are about 2" left of the center line from the sandbag seated. standing they are 3" or more. rapid fire puts some rounds off the left side of the page (8.5x11) and in about 130 rounds I haven't put one on the right side of the center line. help me out, does this sound like my fault (trigger pull etc) or the gun's
shooting to the left
- Thread starter Recon7
- Start date
Shooting to the left
Don't know if this is the problem, but I will tell you my story & solution.
I shoot both eyes open and have left dominate eye. I found that with any pistol I will shoot to the left unless I make sure I have my head really to the center of the rear of the pistol. I shoot two hand with angled stance. I make sure to bring my right arm tight and keep my head centered. Now I do this without thinking. It solved my left shooting. You will find a lot of left eye dominate shooters shoot to the left if they don't take care. I assume the reverse for right eye dominate. Sounds complicated, but in practice it works.
Added: Before I learned this I was adjusting a pistols sights for left shooting. I could tell I had the sights farther left than seemed normal. After I solved my alignment problem I had to bring the sights back to a More normal position. Hope this helps.
Don't know if this is the problem, but I will tell you my story & solution.
I shoot both eyes open and have left dominate eye. I found that with any pistol I will shoot to the left unless I make sure I have my head really to the center of the rear of the pistol. I shoot two hand with angled stance. I make sure to bring my right arm tight and keep my head centered. Now I do this without thinking. It solved my left shooting. You will find a lot of left eye dominate shooters shoot to the left if they don't take care. I assume the reverse for right eye dominate. Sounds complicated, but in practice it works.
Added: Before I learned this I was adjusting a pistols sights for left shooting. I could tell I had the sights farther left than seemed normal. After I solved my alignment problem I had to bring the sights back to a More normal position. Hope this helps.
shepherddogs
New member
Take a wooden dowel and a hammer and lightly tap the rear sight slightly to the right, then try again. It helps to put some type of tiny mark on the slide to help you gauge how much you are moving the sight. Go a little at a time til the sights are properly aligned.
HappyGunner
New member
Hold off the sight moving.
Before you start moving the sights watch this Todd Jarret Video. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4584332856867071363&q=ipsc&pr=goog-sl
It will tell you a lot about just why you keep shooting left.
Before you start moving the sights watch this Todd Jarret Video. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4584332856867071363&q=ipsc&pr=goog-sl
It will tell you a lot about just why you keep shooting left.
HighValleyRanch
New member
It's not your sights, and it's not your vision!
The main clue is in your statement that tells all,
is that as you loose your support system, i.e. from bench to standing and then to RAPID FIRE, your shots go more left and left.
That is a sure indicator that it is in your trigger pull. If it were only your vison, the groups would be identical throughout, from bench to rapid fire.
But that your shots are going off the page....it's your trigger pull, or flinch.
Try doing some ball and dummy exercises to see if you flinch when hitting the empty shot.
Have a friend load your mags so you don't know if the gun is hot or empty. Or throw some loaded and empty mags into a bag, reach in and load them yourself.
If the sights move when you hit empty, then you know what to work on.
The main clue is in your statement that tells all,
is that as you loose your support system, i.e. from bench to standing and then to RAPID FIRE, your shots go more left and left.
That is a sure indicator that it is in your trigger pull. If it were only your vison, the groups would be identical throughout, from bench to rapid fire.
But that your shots are going off the page....it's your trigger pull, or flinch.
Try doing some ball and dummy exercises to see if you flinch when hitting the empty shot.
Have a friend load your mags so you don't know if the gun is hot or empty. Or throw some loaded and empty mags into a bag, reach in and load them yourself.
If the sights move when you hit empty, then you know what to work on.
shepherddogs
New member
If you shot off sandbags I figure you took the human out of the equation. You had the salesman install the sights at time of purchase. I'm guessing that after he installed them he didn't test fire at the indoor range? If he didn't shoot it he wouldn't have any way of knowing if the sights were adjusted correctly. Just my .02.
Shadow1198
New member
I don't know about anyone else but, I feel I want to learn how to do things properly before going and modifying the gun to fit my current improper technique. There's always the possibility the sights are physically misaligned, though you'd have to shoot properly from a rest to determine that. Personally I see it as you can modify the gun to fit your bad habits, however you will still have the bad habit and should you pick up any other gun that has not been modified to compensate, your bad habit will still appear. What if you get in a self defense situation and for some odd reason have to grab a gun that hasn't been modified to compensate for your bad habit, then you are going to have the same inaccuracy and that's certainly not good. It pays to learn much more than it does to modify your gun or make up for a lack of skill by adding all sorts of expensive match grade stuff to it. Personally, I still have some problems with trigger control and still tend to shoot a bit left. A few months ago, I was sometimes shooting pretty far left off the bullseye, like maybe 6-10" shooting off-hand even at 7-10yd's (hey I'm still relatively new to handguns). I should also mention that I'm cross dominant meaning I shoot handguns with my right hand and am left eye dominant so that could likely be a part of it. However, for right handed shooters, typically shooting anywhere to the left usually has to do with improper trigger control (yanking, too much trigger finger). One thing I've noticed is that, while I've been focusing on proper grip and trigger control a lot lately, my groups have slowly become more and more consistent, tighter and closer to the center. Now I usually tend to shoot dead center with a few off to the right 1-3" though usually still in a "tight" group. Slowly I think I'm improving though I think I still need some work on the trigger control and I really need to start working out my hand and upper body strength as well so I can be a little more consistent. It takes time and practice. Get some snap caps and practice dry firing. Also one technique is to have a friend load your mag while mixing some snap caps in to see if you end up pushing/flinching when you reach it.
I would also recommend focusing on one technique at a time. Judging by everything I've read from the experts and sort of learned on my own is that trigger control is vastly more important than most people realize, and more important than grip, sights, etc. The reason being moving the gun only a very few degrees any direction at the muzzle as a result of yanking the trigger, too much trigger finger on the trigger causing a pull at an angle....those few degrees equate to significantly larger groups once you factor in the distance between the muzzle and the target. I'd really recommend experimenting for beginners. Try out different grip holds, try out different stances, etc etc. Find one that still gives you proper control, but is comfortable to you. Though, focus on one technique at a time IMO because if you start trying to work on different grip holds and working on your trigger pull at the same time, your improvement might not be as noticeable, and/or you might not improve as quickly. I'm not saying necessarily you have to perfect one thing first before you move on. I'm just saying pace yourself. Force yourself to focus on nothing except trigger control for one 50rd box, grip for the next box, or break it up in days instead of boxes or whatever suits you. Once you separate training individual aspects like that, and once you actually start to see the improvement in groupings from relatively minor changes, believe me, for most people things are just kind of going to "click". It will make a lot more sense, and you will likely start improving much more quickly once you've actually experienced this improvement and physically understand what's going on as opposed to just reading about it on the internet. Man I think I'm starting to sound like an infomercial. lol
One technique that REALLY helped me out was what is called surprising yourself with the trigger. Trigger feel, pre-travel, over-travel, etc are different on most triggers, however the basics are the same. What you do is slowly ease on the trigger and take up the pre-travel until you reach the sear trip point (don't pull past that yet). Once you've taken up the slack, keep focusing hard on your sights and the front sight and don't even think about the trigger. Just slowly keep easing on the trigger and eventually you'll trip the sear and the gun will fire sort of surprising you in the process (it's important to do this slowly and focus on the sights for it to be effective). After firing, do not release the trigger all the way, simply release until you reach the reset at which point you should hear an audible click of the reset or sometimes you can actually feel the minor vibration through the trigger and frame. Rinse and repeat as desired. The whole idea of this training method, as I understand it, is since you are pulling the trigger ever so slowly and focusing on the sights it will help you to eliminate trigger finger flinch and focus on easing the trigger straight back in the proper manner as opposed to just yanking it. After enough time, practice, and experience speed will come.
I would also recommend focusing on one technique at a time. Judging by everything I've read from the experts and sort of learned on my own is that trigger control is vastly more important than most people realize, and more important than grip, sights, etc. The reason being moving the gun only a very few degrees any direction at the muzzle as a result of yanking the trigger, too much trigger finger on the trigger causing a pull at an angle....those few degrees equate to significantly larger groups once you factor in the distance between the muzzle and the target. I'd really recommend experimenting for beginners. Try out different grip holds, try out different stances, etc etc. Find one that still gives you proper control, but is comfortable to you. Though, focus on one technique at a time IMO because if you start trying to work on different grip holds and working on your trigger pull at the same time, your improvement might not be as noticeable, and/or you might not improve as quickly. I'm not saying necessarily you have to perfect one thing first before you move on. I'm just saying pace yourself. Force yourself to focus on nothing except trigger control for one 50rd box, grip for the next box, or break it up in days instead of boxes or whatever suits you. Once you separate training individual aspects like that, and once you actually start to see the improvement in groupings from relatively minor changes, believe me, for most people things are just kind of going to "click". It will make a lot more sense, and you will likely start improving much more quickly once you've actually experienced this improvement and physically understand what's going on as opposed to just reading about it on the internet. Man I think I'm starting to sound like an infomercial. lol
One technique that REALLY helped me out was what is called surprising yourself with the trigger. Trigger feel, pre-travel, over-travel, etc are different on most triggers, however the basics are the same. What you do is slowly ease on the trigger and take up the pre-travel until you reach the sear trip point (don't pull past that yet). Once you've taken up the slack, keep focusing hard on your sights and the front sight and don't even think about the trigger. Just slowly keep easing on the trigger and eventually you'll trip the sear and the gun will fire sort of surprising you in the process (it's important to do this slowly and focus on the sights for it to be effective). After firing, do not release the trigger all the way, simply release until you reach the reset at which point you should hear an audible click of the reset or sometimes you can actually feel the minor vibration through the trigger and frame. Rinse and repeat as desired.
The whole idea of this training method, as I understand it, is since you are pulling the trigger ever so slowly and focusing on the sights it will help you to eliminate trigger finger flinch and focus on easing the trigger straight back in the proper manner as opposed to just yanking it. After enough time, practice, and experience speed will come.HappyGunner
New member
The reason
This is the reason I tell people having problems to watch the Todd Jarret Video.
This is the reason I tell people having problems to watch the Todd Jarret Video.
shoting to the left
So you are right handed? For a right hand thumb, the tendency to shoot to the left is in the final quick squeeze. Remember to let the gun fire when it's ready. A final, sudden, split second squeeze will naturally twist your gun to the left. It's a flinch reaction to the anticipated burst. Squeeze, squeeze, squeeze and let the gun fire when it's ready. All you do is aim.
So you are right handed? For a right hand thumb, the tendency to shoot to the left is in the final quick squeeze. Remember to let the gun fire when it's ready. A final, sudden, split second squeeze will naturally twist your gun to the left. It's a flinch reaction to the anticipated burst. Squeeze, squeeze, squeeze and let the gun fire when it's ready. All you do is aim.
If the rear sight's centered on the slide, then all the "sighting in" that's necessary has already been done. Next, you need to work a little on trigger control, grip and stance. I could write another 1000 words on this, but figure what I've already said pretty much covers it.
There's a target that's posted frequently that shows the trigger-control causes for various points of impact.
There's a target that's posted frequently that shows the trigger-control causes for various points of impact.
HappyGunner
New member
Boncrayon is correct
He is right on target it's a lot to do with pulling that trigger if your pulling on it it's going off target. It might not feel like your pulling but it's happening.
He is right on target it's a lot to do with pulling that trigger if your pulling on it it's going off target.
It might not feel like your pulling but it's happening.vox rationis
New member
My G17 does the same thing. I always shot it a bit to the left, about half an inch, but then I had the plastic sights replaced with steel ones (still in the process of deciding whether or not I want those TruGlo sights and didn't want plastic sights in the meantime), and now my "Left Ward" problem has worsened.
Both groups are shot at around 10 yards. The group on the left is actually me trying to shoot it from the bench, but I didn't have a chair, and didn't have a proper rest hence the horizontal stringing. The group on the right is shot off hand. Anyway, I shoot point of aim with other pistols, both revolver and semi-auto, and my front sight is acceptably steady when I dry fire. If anything if I don't concentrate the front sight will shimmy slightly RIGHT while dry firing the G17, so my conclusion is that I suffer from a left shooting Glock (the rear sight is fairly well centered on the rear of the slide). What's a good sight adjustment tool that you guys recommend?
Both groups are shot at around 10 yards. The group on the left is actually me trying to shoot it from the bench, but I didn't have a chair, and didn't have a proper rest hence the horizontal stringing. The group on the right is shot off hand. Anyway, I shoot point of aim with other pistols, both revolver and semi-auto, and my front sight is acceptably steady when I dry fire. If anything if I don't concentrate the front sight will shimmy slightly RIGHT while dry firing the G17, so my conclusion is that I suffer from a left shooting Glock (the rear sight is fairly well centered on the rear of the slide). What's a good sight adjustment tool that you guys recommend?
HappyGunner
New member
All of my handguns
I can take ever gun I own to the range and if I get into a rush or get tired jerk my shots off let my wrist limp the groups move left (I am right handed). So I know it's not the guns it's me not doing things correct.
I can take ever gun I own to the range and if I get into a rush or get tired jerk my shots off let my wrist limp the groups move left (I am right handed). So I know it's not the guns it's me not doing things correct.