Shooting the wounded

[Cal4D4]

story

A story just out shows US forces going room to room, coming across a pair of enemy "bodies" - one dead and one either badly wounded or feigning death. One was observed breathing and was quickly shot and killed for real. Various ploys have been utilized to ambush our troops, including mock surrender, faked death and then shooting, as well as booby trapped wounded and dead. As this story develops I hope first consideration is given to the safety of our troops before they try to brand wartime actions as criminal or atrocities. This is going to be the media's big slant. Even Oliver North seemed overly concerned about this shooting. I worry about the defense of the soldiers going in harm's way and being attacked by our media in the name of political correctness.

 

[IZinterrogator]

What really chaps my hide is that we are always hearing about our troops going to trial for things like that, but nobody has mentioned the insurgents facing a war-crimes trial. Maybe because they will get away with it, even if they are caught?

 

[Indy_SIG]

Our troops are fighting a battle they cannot win

"I worry about the defense of the soldiers going in harm's way and being attacked by our media in the name of political correctness."

The ONLY way this nonsense will end is when the American people collectively grow a backbone and make it end. Until then, political correctness and the liberal agenda will continue unabated. Everyone makes such a big deal out of the recent election results. In reality, it meant nothing: the anti-American agenda of the left is alive and well and still in control.

 

[Tamara]

Y'know, there's the rules of war, and then there's the realities of war. Aussie troops in the Monte Cassino campaign even had a slang phrase for the situation: by the time they'd fought their way through heavy machinegun fire (with heavy casualties) and grenaded their way into a bunker, a pair of hands raised at the last moment was greeted with "Too late, mate," and a burst of Sten fire. To expect a nineteen year-old to fight his way through a crossfire, possibly watching friends get killed and wounded around him, and then respond chivalrously when the defenders throw their hands up and say "Hey, we were just kidding," is expecting a lot. Yes, he needs to be tried, but one would hope that the totality of the circumstances is taken into consideration before a verdict is handed down...

 

[Danindetroit]

Shooting an unarmed, wounded combatant is considered a violation of the rules of war.

They never happen to mention if he is armed.

 

[IZinterrogator]

Indy,

We can win. The question is, will the politicians let us win??

 

[PsychoSword]

Who the hell wants this craphole anyways. Maybe the terrorists are fighting to get out.

 

[Ignition]

from now on our troops are going to have to toss a mini-swiss army knife to insurgents right before they fire on those faking being wounded..



ahhhh the liberal media.... just imagine if we had the liberal media we have today when we were trying to gain our independece from britian.... you cant fight gurellia warfare... thats uncivil... besides guns are bad

 

[paratrooper]

I heard a piece of this on the radio . The reporter said that the video was too graphic to show . Hmmmm then how come the chopped up bodies that were burned and hanged on the bridge were O.K. to view everywhere ? As for his actions ..... suffice it to say that I am in no position to throw stones .

 

[KBR80]

Yes, it is a violation of the rules of war. That being said, I dont have a problem with it. When you fight rats, sometimes you have to get down in the sewer.

 

[mete]

I once came across some letters written by a french soldier when they fought to control Lebanon back in the 20s or 30s. He said it isn't enough to shoot them ,you have to make sure they are dead, because if they have even one drop of life left they will try to kill you. Between that and booby traps etc life on the front is not very nice.And the second enemy is the media ! Let the military handle it , if there is a problem it will be delt with.They delt with the prisoner abuse problem without the help of the media.

 

[dinosaur]

Scene in the jungles of Viet Nam, "Sir, that man is wounded!" "Yeah, right." BANG "Now I can run for President! Get the camera."

 

[gburner]

Their desire is to meet Allah. Our objective is to facillitate that meeting. This one went to the head of the class.

I'm told that the soldier who allegedly dispatched the man in question had been wounded in the face the previous day in a similar scenario; a mortally wounded 'insurgent' booby trapped to take somebody with him.
'fool me once, shame on you; try again and I'm blowin' your effing head off'.

 

[Handy]

I guess it's a shame the US soldiers the day before wasted their medical supplies on people that other US soldiers were going to execute.


I guess I like it better when we act like the most powerful nation on earth, rather than lowering our standards to that of our enemies, or just expedience.

 

[TheBluesMan]

I guess it's a shame the US soldiers the day before wasted their medical supplies on people that other US soldiers were going to execute.

Whadduz dat mean? Got link?

 

[2002gti]

if its my ass that could be killed

rules of egagement should be totally up to me. i dont see anyone fighting this war from a desk.

 

[gburner]

Is this a question of expedience or self preservation???

We are fighting an enemy that maintains that his ticket to paradise is to die a martyr's death while taking as many of us with him as possible. There are multiple, verifiable incidents of mortally wounded 'insurgents' doing just that, either by booby trappng their bodies or feigning death until closely inspected, at which time they attempt to gun down or blow up everyone in close proximity. Some would have us follow the 'book' to the letter and continue to take needless casualties while the enemy refuses to be morally or ethically restrained to the same degree. I find it curious and a little troubling that this type of warfare would be described as 'execution'. They are fighting to the death...their choice, not ours. They DO NOT respect or acknowledge the proprietes involved in surrender The only shame is that we don't adopt this practice as one of our rules of engagement. The 'fighters'in Falluja (and now Mosul) are getting exactly what they have been asking for; sow the wind, reap the whirlwind. We need more of this. It is emblematic of what this war is about. Kill or be killed. Now is not the time to go wobbly.

One wonders how the modern 'press' would have covered Iwo Jima, Okinawa, Monte Cassino, the Bocage, etc.

BTW...Just because we're the most powerful nation on earth doesn't mean we have to be saps about it.

 

[Handy]

TBM,

The way the story was presented on NPR was that the wounded were treated and left by US forces of the same unit on the previous day. A different team went into the building doing a search the next day and apparently reacted differently to the same wounded Iraqis.

I think it important to remember, as we discuss "death cultists" and "crapholes" that Iraq was one of the most modern countries in the middle east, and about as fundamentally Islamic as Turkey. This isn't Yemen, Afganistan, or even Saudi. While it is easy to write off all Iraqi insurgents as religious nut-jobs, the insurgents are just as likely to be fighting for a concept far closer to patriotism. I sincerely doubt many of them look forward to death, but they aren't the only ones who invented slogans like "give me liberty or give me death" (Patrick Henry - death cultist).

We aren't cultural anthropologists and don't read minds. If killing wounded Austrians sounds like a bad idea, then it needs to apply to all enemies, including wounded Iraqis. There certainly are situations that are truly the devils choice, but this doesn't sound like one of them. I invite any of you history buffs to cite examples of when US forces killed unarmed enemies because it was not possible to take them prisoner. That seems to be what this situation amounts to.

 

[Derek Zeanah]

TBM:

Looks like this was the second day the marines went through that section of town; the first time 5 seriously injured fighters had been treated and left there, so I'm assuming they turned the mosque into a casualty collection point.

 

[Kaylee]

If killing wounded Austrians sounds like a bad idea, then it needs to apply to all enemies, including wounded Iraqis.

If we were fighting Austrians that were acting in the same way (booby trapping their own dead and wounded, kidnapping and beheading civilians, so forth and so on... ) -- I'd have absolutely zero problem with that Marine blasting said Austrian instead of said Iraqi.

Not to self... if I don't want to be shot by Marines... don't act like a frickin' animal.