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Shooting: standing, unsupported
- Thread starter SavageMOA
- Start date
Shooting Offhand:
First off, Pardon the spelling, I had a secretary when I did this for a living.
First one must be comfortable, when coaching rifle shooters I'm always asked, "How far apart should my feet be". I ignor the quetion for a few minutes and have the shooter stand, and stretch. Then while they are standing I stop what ever lecture I'm doing, and tell them to look at their feet. (all are differant distances apart). Then I tell them that is excactly how far apart their feet should be.
Next: Bring the rifle to your shoulder, Depending on the rifle, the non shooting hand should be either under the mag. as in ARs and M14s, using the mag as a Palm Rest. If using a Garand or simular rifle, then the hand should be just a head of the trigger guard, under where the mag would stick out if there was one.
Bring the rifle to your shoulder, Move it up so you can see the sights while the head is straight and errect. The head shouldnt be tilted at all. If you have to push the butt higher up on the shoulder, so be it. Its got to be done.
The elbow of the non-shooting arm should be resting on your side, hip bone if it sticks out enough, this is where a large gut comes in handy. Regardless, the elbow has to rest on your body, there should be no undo mussle work holding the rifle.
Now, line up on your target. Close your eyes, then open them and see where you are in regards to the target. Make adjustments to elevation can be adjusted by moving the butt up and down in your shoulder, (keeping the head straight up) or by moving your non shooting hand toward the muzzle or trigger guard, depending if your pointing high or low.
For windage, move your trailing (back) foot, left or right to move you sights onto the target. Then put down the rifle, close your eyes, bring it back to your shoulder pointing at the target and open your eyes to see where you're at. Keep this up until you are on every time you bring the rifle up.
Most important. RELAX, that is one of the most under rated shooting fundalmental mentioned, yet its extremely important. Granted the further up you get (from prone to kneeling, to setting to standing) the harder its gonna be, but you can still relax.
Dry Fire: then Dry fire some more.
Use a score or data book, record all changes in your position and the results.
Now for firing. Load the round with as little movement as possible, if shooting a match where single loading is required, place your ammo where you can get to it without bending over. Have you scope set so you can see the target by just moving your head, not body or feet.
Front sight, just as important in rifle shooting is concentrating on the front sight with a rifle. Try to imagine the front sight is on a lever attached to the trigger, as you pull the trigger back, you are moving the front sight. Move the front sight slowly to the rear. Now we all know you cant move the front sight with the trigger, but, if your are doing it right it will look like you are actually moving the front sight. What is really happening, is your concentration is to the point the front sight is clear and sharp, making it look like its moving closer to your.
Shoot with both eyes open to prevent eye fatigue. If you cant for what ever reason, get a pair of shooting glasses and blacken out your non shooting eye. That helps.
Follow through: Extremely important. Best way to practice this is the imagine you are firing two shots rapidly, after the first shot, get back on target as fast as your can like you are gonna firea second round. Normaly people want to look at the target to see what happened as soon as the round goes off, what happens they start bringing the rifle down while the round is still in the barrel, (subconsiencualy). Use that to your advantage, coming back on target.
Target: Dont shoot for Xs or 10s, shoot for black, you aim for the black, (which should be fuzzy anyway) the 10 & Xs will take care of themselves.
Breathing: that you have to figure out your self, contrary what your read or hear, everyone is differant. You can tell in your dry firing when in the breathing cycle, the rifle is the most steady.
Off hand, (pardon the pun) this is all I can think of right now,I'm sure more will come. Go to the CMP web sight, and for $6.95 you can get the SERVICE RIFLE Guide put out by the Army Marksmanship Unit, the best shooters in the world. It will cover not only offhand but other positions as well.
Main thing is practice what works, dry fire and practice, spend time just standing there in the offhand position to help develope stringht.
and RELAX
First off, Pardon the spelling, I had a secretary when I did this for a living.
First one must be comfortable, when coaching rifle shooters I'm always asked, "How far apart should my feet be". I ignor the quetion for a few minutes and have the shooter stand, and stretch. Then while they are standing I stop what ever lecture I'm doing, and tell them to look at their feet. (all are differant distances apart). Then I tell them that is excactly how far apart their feet should be.
Next: Bring the rifle to your shoulder, Depending on the rifle, the non shooting hand should be either under the mag. as in ARs and M14s, using the mag as a Palm Rest. If using a Garand or simular rifle, then the hand should be just a head of the trigger guard, under where the mag would stick out if there was one.
Bring the rifle to your shoulder, Move it up so you can see the sights while the head is straight and errect. The head shouldnt be tilted at all. If you have to push the butt higher up on the shoulder, so be it. Its got to be done.
The elbow of the non-shooting arm should be resting on your side, hip bone if it sticks out enough, this is where a large gut comes in handy. Regardless, the elbow has to rest on your body, there should be no undo mussle work holding the rifle.
Now, line up on your target. Close your eyes, then open them and see where you are in regards to the target. Make adjustments to elevation can be adjusted by moving the butt up and down in your shoulder, (keeping the head straight up) or by moving your non shooting hand toward the muzzle or trigger guard, depending if your pointing high or low.
For windage, move your trailing (back) foot, left or right to move you sights onto the target. Then put down the rifle, close your eyes, bring it back to your shoulder pointing at the target and open your eyes to see where you're at. Keep this up until you are on every time you bring the rifle up.
Most important. RELAX, that is one of the most under rated shooting fundalmental mentioned, yet its extremely important. Granted the further up you get (from prone to kneeling, to setting to standing) the harder its gonna be, but you can still relax.
Dry Fire: then Dry fire some more.
Use a score or data book, record all changes in your position and the results.
Now for firing. Load the round with as little movement as possible, if shooting a match where single loading is required, place your ammo where you can get to it without bending over. Have you scope set so you can see the target by just moving your head, not body or feet.
Front sight, just as important in rifle shooting is concentrating on the front sight with a rifle. Try to imagine the front sight is on a lever attached to the trigger, as you pull the trigger back, you are moving the front sight. Move the front sight slowly to the rear. Now we all know you cant move the front sight with the trigger, but, if your are doing it right it will look like you are actually moving the front sight. What is really happening, is your concentration is to the point the front sight is clear and sharp, making it look like its moving closer to your.
Shoot with both eyes open to prevent eye fatigue. If you cant for what ever reason, get a pair of shooting glasses and blacken out your non shooting eye. That helps.
Follow through: Extremely important. Best way to practice this is the imagine you are firing two shots rapidly, after the first shot, get back on target as fast as your can like you are gonna firea second round. Normaly people want to look at the target to see what happened as soon as the round goes off, what happens they start bringing the rifle down while the round is still in the barrel, (subconsiencualy). Use that to your advantage, coming back on target.
Target: Dont shoot for Xs or 10s, shoot for black, you aim for the black, (which should be fuzzy anyway) the 10 & Xs will take care of themselves.
Breathing: that you have to figure out your self, contrary what your read or hear, everyone is differant. You can tell in your dry firing when in the breathing cycle, the rifle is the most steady.
Off hand, (pardon the pun) this is all I can think of right now,I'm sure more will come. Go to the CMP web sight, and for $6.95 you can get the SERVICE RIFLE Guide put out by the Army Marksmanship Unit, the best shooters in the world. It will cover not only offhand but other positions as well.
Main thing is practice what works, dry fire and practice, spend time just standing there in the offhand position to help develope stringht.
and RELAX
I admire you for getting off the bench!
I suggest a book "Position Rifle Shooting" if you can find it.
Here are a few suggestions.Find the most natural,comfortable stance you can find.Sort of an "At ease" position,with your bones doing all the work.Look at the target,and then bring the rifle up to your face.You may need your right elbow high.D not tilt your head to meet the rifle.If you tilt your head,your inner ears tilt and your gyros will wobble.One more thing.You can move your feet.Shift those around to find your natural point of aim.You shift your feet so that,with the rifle down you can look at the target,then close your eyes,raise the rifle to your shoulder,and with the most peaceful,natural stance you can find,open your eyes and have the sights aligned on the target.
Use dry firing to work on breathing and squeezing.Squeeze a little when things are pretty good and they look like they are getting better,don't add pressure as you drift off a little.If you go alittle long,don't force it.Lower the rifle,breathe,and start over.
When you do fire,it is very important to be able to recall just what the sights looked like when the rifle recoiled.Call the shot(edge of the black,4 oclock)It is the best way to prevent closing your eyes and jerking the trigger.(The only way I know).
Where you might use it? I head shoot rabbits offhand.I have killed some big game offhand,close.(Of course sitting and prone or taking a rest are better,but not always possible.)
It is fun to put a pumpkin out at 300 yds,and pick up one round,hang the rifle out offhand,have a buddy say "No way" and bust the pumpkin.
Muzzle loader competition is often offhand,so is sillouhette shooting.
It's fun.Its useful,and it does take skill and practice.
I suggest a book "Position Rifle Shooting" if you can find it.
Here are a few suggestions.Find the most natural,comfortable stance you can find.Sort of an "At ease" position,with your bones doing all the work.Look at the target,and then bring the rifle up to your face.You may need your right elbow high.D not tilt your head to meet the rifle.If you tilt your head,your inner ears tilt and your gyros will wobble.One more thing.You can move your feet.Shift those around to find your natural point of aim.You shift your feet so that,with the rifle down you can look at the target,then close your eyes,raise the rifle to your shoulder,and with the most peaceful,natural stance you can find,open your eyes and have the sights aligned on the target.
Use dry firing to work on breathing and squeezing.Squeeze a little when things are pretty good and they look like they are getting better,don't add pressure as you drift off a little.If you go alittle long,don't force it.Lower the rifle,breathe,and start over.
When you do fire,it is very important to be able to recall just what the sights looked like when the rifle recoiled.Call the shot(edge of the black,4 oclock)It is the best way to prevent closing your eyes and jerking the trigger.(The only way I know).
Where you might use it? I head shoot rabbits offhand.I have killed some big game offhand,close.(Of course sitting and prone or taking a rest are better,but not always possible.)
It is fun to put a pumpkin out at 300 yds,and pick up one round,hang the rifle out offhand,have a buddy say "No way" and bust the pumpkin.
Muzzle loader competition is often offhand,so is sillouhette shooting.
It's fun.Its useful,and it does take skill and practice.
If you want to have fun seeing folks shoot offhand,go to a muzzleloader shoot and watch .They do things like split a ball on the edge of a double bit ax to break 2 targets.They hit very small swinging targets.
It helps that those old rifles were designed to be shot and reloaded standing up.
Remember our modern bolt sporting rifle was designed to be shot with the belly sucking its way lower into the mud as bullets cracked overhead.Its secondary design was to be a handle for a bayonet.
Hawkens and longrifles and such were designed to be shot offhand.
It helps that those old rifles were designed to be shot and reloaded standing up.
Remember our modern bolt sporting rifle was designed to be shot with the belly sucking its way lower into the mud as bullets cracked overhead.Its secondary design was to be a handle for a bayonet.
Hawkens and longrifles and such were designed to be shot offhand.
Offhand is the easiest position to shoot from.
Of course it's also the most difficult to score well from.
HiBC and Kraigwy covered all of the important points. The best advice though is to get the videos and books from CMP about Service Rifle shooting. Seeing the positions can make the learning easier .
Of course it's also the most difficult to score well from.
HiBC and Kraigwy covered all of the important points. The best advice though is to get the videos and books from CMP about Service Rifle shooting. Seeing the positions can make the learning easier .
Can those same fundamentals be used for iron sights and magnified optics?
You betcha
3StrikesNC
New member
A year ago I started shooting in CMP M1 matches, 200 yards, iron sights. Prior to that I wouldn't touch a non-scoped rifle, as it reminded me of when I couldn't "afford" a scope.
I have to say, I really enjoy iron sights, 200 yards, Garand Matches. Your required to shoot timed prone, sit/kneel, and unsupported (no sling) standing. Once you get your "you know what" off the ground, it really proves what you're capable of, especially on the clock. Very satisfying.
Now, shooting with a scope, off a bench, just seems "unfair".
Just a new perspective for me, I guess.
I have to say, I really enjoy iron sights, 200 yards, Garand Matches. Your required to shoot timed prone, sit/kneel, and unsupported (no sling) standing. Once you get your "you know what" off the ground, it really proves what you're capable of, especially on the clock. Very satisfying.
Now, shooting with a scope, off a bench, just seems "unfair".
Just a new perspective for me, I guess.
They certainly do apply.With irons,focus on making your sight picture perfect as far as sight is concerned.For example,with a blade and open sight,be sure the blade is flush with the top of the notch and the light gap on each side is the same.Your eyes focus on the sights.Let the target fuzz out.
With a scope,I keep both eyes open.Your eyes last longer.Look at the target and put the scope in front of your eye.Now,that may take some tuning,to get the scope height and eye relief and stock comb all just right.When you do the drill of closing your eyes and bring the rifle up,then opening your eyes,the rifle has to "fit".If you aren't looking through the full field of the scope with the crosshairs on the target,you'll scrunch around and lose the foundation of your body. That is why target shooters and other folks who must place a shot have adjustable combs and buttplates.You may not want to go that far on a hunting rifle,but think of these things while you are learning.Sliding the scope 1/2 in for or aft might help.
Oh,even with a scope,focus on the reticle.You'll see the target well enough.
With a scope,I keep both eyes open.Your eyes last longer.Look at the target and put the scope in front of your eye.Now,that may take some tuning,to get the scope height and eye relief and stock comb all just right.When you do the drill of closing your eyes and bring the rifle up,then opening your eyes,the rifle has to "fit".If you aren't looking through the full field of the scope with the crosshairs on the target,you'll scrunch around and lose the foundation of your body. That is why target shooters and other folks who must place a shot have adjustable combs and buttplates.You may not want to go that far on a hunting rifle,but think of these things while you are learning.Sliding the scope 1/2 in for or aft might help.
Oh,even with a scope,focus on the reticle.You'll see the target well enough.
I'm going to give you my experience moving from bench to offhand....and it worked for me. Yeah, you CAN use the offhand targets that look like you couldn't help but hit the thing with yer eyes closed. But after I had played with it for a while, a guy at the gun club said to use a 25 yd rimfire target. Yeah, it's small and that's the idea behind it. It makes you sharpen up, think, and become one with the rifle. FWIW using that target against the Weatherby Camp Perry team in an exhibition match, I shot a 127/150/8X with a varmint Model 700 6mm. I outshot the Weatherby guys by a LOT. And I didn't win the match either. The guy that got me started on using the small targets did. His group, excluding one flyer, was about 1 1/2" but most of his rounds were in the ten ring. I'd suggest starting with a smaller target than an offhand target. I think you'll be surprised once you settle down just how good you can shoot offhand. The guys shooting the offhand military matches at the club are rather ****** when they miss the X ring at 200 meters. It can be done if you have the patience. Compared to them, I'm just a country plinker but I don't embarrass myself so it's all good. Best of luck and I'm another one saying congratulations on becoming a better shooter.
I appreciate the support, friends. I just needed a new challenge, and once I tried shooting offhand with my heavy-barreled (26" bbl) savage, I believe I've found the challenge!
I've got a 10/22 and a model 60 to practice with, but neither of those will compare to the workout of holding that massive hunk of metal and wood that is my Savage offhand.
Again, the encouragement to become a better shooter is greatly appreciated.
I've got a 10/22 and a model 60 to practice with, but neither of those will compare to the workout of holding that massive hunk of metal and wood that is my Savage offhand.
Again, the encouragement to become a better shooter is greatly appreciated.
Art Eatman
Staff in Memoriam
When hunting in brushy country, offhand shooting is all there is. From any other position, Bambi is invisible.
Now, I never have really been able to "hold steady" and do well from the offhand position. So, I learned to swing in and when the sights are almost on target, tell my trigger finger to do its thing. That 0.2-second time lag means that I'm usualy holding the correct sight picture when the gun goes bang. It's much like shooting a shotgun, I guess, but it works for me.
Now, I never have really been able to "hold steady" and do well from the offhand position. So, I learned to swing in and when the sights are almost on target, tell my trigger finger to do its thing. That 0.2-second time lag means that I'm usualy holding the correct sight picture when the gun goes bang. It's much like shooting a shotgun, I guess, but it works for me.
I highly recommend going to an Appleseed Shoot. You will learn how to shoot unsupported from the standing, sitting, and prone positions their. I have been to several highpower clinics and Army shooting schools. None of them have broke down the basics as well or taught the proper positional shooting as well as Appleseed. Congrats on getting up and away from the bench, now if only more people would do the same.
+1 on what Art posted. I "vector" in on the target with sight moving and let it go. I usually do the opposite, live things, I will swing high and on the way down let it go. I have been doing this for Many years and it works for me. Don't shoot paper that much but am learning still.. Thanks to all the input from forums like this. As Art mentioned, the trick is knowing where that .2 sec lag is for you, but it works. It is a practice thing as far as I am concerned then it comes natural when you know your rifle.
Ken
Ken
Dirty Bill
New member
Boltgun has the answer. I believe a rifleman needs to learn to shoot from every position,to be ready for any shot that presents itself. A deer that pops up at 25 yards,or that bull elk at 400 yards,you need to know that you can make the shot from whatever position you are in.
Attending an Appleseed event will teach you what you need to know and when you shoot a rifle man score,you will be ready for those kind of shots.
Getting away from shooting off the bench will show you how good of a shot you really are. I urge everyone to take a look at the Appleseed program.
http://www.appleseedinfo.org/
Attending an Appleseed event will teach you what you need to know and when you shoot a rifle man score,you will be ready for those kind of shots.
Getting away from shooting off the bench will show you how good of a shot you really are. I urge everyone to take a look at the Appleseed program.
http://www.appleseedinfo.org/
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