Shooting Range Insurance, and other questions.

[Fishing_Cabin]

I have been shooting on a private range belonging to a long time close friend on his farm. I have used this range for YEARS now. There has been recent interest in forming a shooting club there. I have been the first so far to bring up liability insurance, and to form an official type club if this all comes to pass.

I am kind of curious. Since this will be a smaller type club, if it ever comes to pass, I am wondering what we should expect for cost, not just for insurance, but for other basics to keep our rear covered, but to also protect my friend who is willing to allow us to use his property for basically nothing?

This particular range is in a bottom, and the shooting direction is facing an 80 foot dirt bank. The total property is over 100 acres, though I cant remember the exact size tonight. There is a small creek on the property bordering the range. No true sides beyond the of the rising ground beside of us. The neighboring property is all hay fields, with alittle corn for sileage. We are in the process of building a more conventional "berm" so to speak, as well as expanding our rifle range. We have had a narrow type range suitable for a few people, and are now cleaning off the sidelines not only for grounds keeping, but also to see what pans out as far as the greater group.

As far as range fees, we have discussed between 25 and 100 per year with basically unlimited availability if possible due to our cost. Thats just a number people are willing to pay, but we are researching cost for this smaller group. The only restrictions we have discussed is no shooting after 8pm, and with the exception of law enforcement qualification which would be limited to at MOST once every 2 months, and then the time period would be extended to 10pm to ensure time for their night time qualifications. This only happens once a year right now, so we are being open minded just in case.

In the years I have shot there, the only complaint was a few days ago when we were burning brush. That was only a call about a smoke in the area, but we are in a hole, that they could not see the brush truck there, and the tractor that cleared a line around the burn area. No complaints ever related to shooting.

So, with all of that said, while I know forming a club can be difficult, what expenses have others seen as far as insurance, regulations, etc, to go from a small group to a formal club?

Keep in mind I have been appointed the unofficial point man so far and just trying to search ideas to bring back and work with the others on.

Thanks in advance for your ideas.

 

[Don P]

Contact the NRA for insurance questions and check with your local government about having the range set up. You then will need a plan for recycling lead ( how often the berms are torn apart and the lead collected) EPA doings. Zoning for the property could change because of the range and membership fees (business being run). Just some of the issues I know range owners go though.

 

[Fishing_Cabin]

Thanks for the reply Don P. I will check on the zoning issue, though that around here, generally inst that complex to get changed provided there isnt a huge objection.

Reclaiming the lead has been discussed already, though we arent sure what the EPA or state DENR folks will require. I will give the state guys a call about this. This is a big concern though as to how extensive they may require this to be.

 

[Armorer-at-Law]

In addition to the NRA, the NSSF (National Shooting Sports Foundation) can be a great resource for information on shooting range operation and compliance.

 

[carguychris]

Re: land planning

Some thoughts about zoning.

Zoning generally won't apply if the range is outside of the limits of an incorporated municipality. However, the key word is generally. Some states have enacted laws allowing cities to extend limited zoning and planning authority outside of city limits using a concept called extraterritorial jurisdiction, or "ETJ" for short.

With zoning laws, it's generally better to ask permission rather than forgiveness. As Don P correctly notes, you are probably crossing the line from private conduct on private land to conducting business activities. If you have any reason to suspect that the range is within municipal limits or ETJ, go talk to the planning or zoning department and explain what you want to do.

You note that there is a small creek bordering the range. This raises a concern that the range area may be within a FEMA flood zone. The consequences from a development standpoint depend, again, on what state you're in and whether the range is within municipal limits. The main concern is that, since the disastrous 2005 New Orleans flood, many municipalities have taken FEMA flood zones much more seriously and have begun more strictly regulating building activities in these areas. That said, the good news is that many shooting-range structures aren't considered "habitable" under standard building codes; they're often lightly built and don't have walls and plumbing, so they can be flooded without serious damage, or swept downstream without causing significant danger to the general public. Again, talk to your local building department before doing any floor plans on the palatial clubhouse you're planning.

 

[pendennis]

Before you get too far in building berms, contact someone familiar with them, and lead reclamation. Whether you need zoning permission, or not, you need to concern yourselves with drainage and possible water contamination. The state and Federal environmental bodies will have something to say in the matter.

The NRA is a great source for information for both insurance, and for construction tips.

We contracted with a company who is doing lead reclamation, and rebuilding our berms. They're also using shredded steel-belted radial tire pieces, which will act as bullet traps. The next range reclamation will be much easier.

 

[Fishing_Cabin]

Its well outside of the ETJ area. The zoning around here while enforced, they do generally issue waivers for various things as well. If all else fails it can be rezoned without much issue I would think.


As far as the flood zone... I havent looked but I am sure it would be well within the flood zone. Beyond an outhouse (legal in this area), and a metal carport type picnic shelter, there are no plans for a regular building. Just an outhouse would be palatial enough for me. I am too used to keeping a short shovel hid, and running for the woods with a roll of TP.

I have spent some time reading through the EPA best practices for ranges today, and one concern that we may have is that with the creek on the property, any lead contained in the berm or under steel targets, may cause a problem for lead levels. Im busy next week, but the following I will get up with the state DENR to see what their thoughts are.

Keep in mind we are only looking at forming the shooting club not to make a profit, but to be able to be insured, and in compliance to protect the property owner. When you have a small group of say 5-10 people occassionally shooting its one thing, but its another when you have around 40 or more express interest the liabilities become a concern.

My concerns are that the cost of such things as insurance and complying with the regulations may cause us to turn away the others. While I and some others have no problem paying 100 or maybe more a year to cover expenses, some others think that 25 a year are extreme. Keep in mind we are just trying to cover expenses alone and not make a profit.

 

[Fishing_Cabin]

Pendennis,

You brought up another good point about the different types of berms. I went to talk to a guy who does rubber recycling. While not expensive, its not entirely cheap either, but I feel it may be cost effective. As I understand it the rubber "berm" material is removed and placed in something like a brine solution where the rubber floats, the lead drops out, and then the rubber "berm" is put back in place. This seems to alot less labor intensive then having to screen out lead from dirt or haul it off.

 

[Don P]

Zoning generally won't apply if the range is outside of the limits of an incorporated municipality. However, the key word is generally.

As you stated its all what state you live in. Here in FLA if you are outside city limits then county zoning picks up.

Reclaiming the lead has been discussed already, though we arent sure what the EPA or state DENR folks will require. I will give the state guys a call about this. This is a big concern though as to how extensive they may require this to be.

This is from the owner of the private range I am a member of he estimated the amount of lead so a time line can be put in place. The company that will remove the lead will also put the berms back as they were before the reclaiming process started.

I have spent some time reading through the EPA best practices for ranges today, and one concern that we may have is that with the creek on the property, any lead contained in the berm or under steel targets, may cause a problem for lead levels.

This is an issue we are dealing with also. Wet lands, creeks all can put the kabosh to a range.

 

[Maximus856]

This is more of a suggestive question, but if you kept it nonprofit, wouldn't that negate the zoning and/or taxing of the property? I would also think that if it's non profit and you volunteer there, you could file that in your returns. What you save in taxes etc. you could apply to insurance and upkeep. I know it would have to be classed as a non profit organization, but just thinking of ways to keep your dues down and people interested.

 

[Don P]

This is more of a suggestive question, but if you kept it nonprofit, wouldn't that negate the zoning and/or taxing of the property?

Not true. It doesn't work that way. Whether non-profit or for profit all government requirements have to be met with regards to zoning and personally I do not think trying to declare a shooting range non-profit is not going to fly.

Think they would let you build a automotive repair shop in a residential development because it was non-profit negating zoning laws. I think not.

 

[Uncle Buck]

If at all possible, get everything is writing.

My father put a sewage lagoon (Gray water) on the property before I took over. I have had a visit from two DNR guys and they both told me the lagoon was too close to the residences and it was not authorized.

I thank the Good Lord that my father was a trusting guy, but got everything in writing. One even went on to say the opinion was no good because the guy who signed it has been retired since 1997.

Telling some inspector ten years later that Mr. Schmuckettelly said it was OK during a phone call will not serve you very well.