I have a Browning model 1885. I am wondering what is the best way to support the forend on this type of rifle when shooting from the bench. Do you rest the forend directly on the shooting bag, or do you have your hand in between the bag and the forend? Or is there a better way?. Thanks.
Shooting Model 1885 from the bench
- Thread starter 4570Tom
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NoSecondBest
New member
I've been shooting the 45-70 in both the 1885 model and a Win 86 lever gun. I'll tell you this: you can send your group all over the target simply by applying varying cheek pressure on the stock while shooting, moving the gun fore and aft on the bags, and moving your hand around in different positions. I can actually choose to shoot sub 1moa groups with my gun and then move the entire group 3-4" simply with cheek pressure or moving the gun on the rest. Most of the time it doesn't move anywhere near that far, I just did it to see how much change I could make with a bit of effort....it's a lot. I spend a lot of bench time working up different loads simply because I find that an interesting hobby. The caliber itself is very easy to load for, most everything shoots good and some loads are outstanding. For absolute best accuracy here's what you want to do: Sit up as straight as possible. I know guys who shoot standing to accomplish this. Put as little pressure as possible on the stock while shooting. The "bridge" design of these types of guns allow a lot of flex in the gun where a solid one piece stock doesn't do this. Rest your hand under the forearm and put your hand on the bag. Get a good rest on the butt stock rather than trying to hold it still. I don't know what bullet and powder you're using now, but the heavier bullets always shoot better in my guns...and I have several of them. I find that I get the best accuracy with bullets starting at 400g and powder charges that shoot the bullet at 1300-1550fps. Sounds slow, but I have yet to recover even one bullet from a deer regardless of the angle or distance. If you want flat, get a fast bottle neck cartridge. Remember this: the gun is flexible. Same for the lever guns. Pressure on stock = moving POI.
Good advice. I find the same thing, small changes in position and hold can make a big difference in your ability to shoot the gun accurately and repeatably. Over the last year I've been using bipods with a rear bag more than my Bull's Bag rest with a rear bag and find this technique more repeatable. Seems to take some of the variables out of the equation.
Unlike many rifles the forend is not connected to the barrel . The 1885 has a hanger fastened to the front of the receiver and that supports the forend , the barrel is then free floating .
My 45-70 forend moved when I got it and that was due to inspection numbers on the front of the receiver preventing the hanger from seating firmly against the receiver . I corrected that before I ever shot it so I don't know how much effect it had but such parts should not wiggle !!
As a hunting rifle I didn't worry about ultimate accuracy , 1"groups [easily found ] were all I needed . The barrel has been cut to 22" and with that cartridge there is really no loss of velocity. A 1x4 scope provides all that I need for woods hunting .Deer have never complained !
My 45-70 forend moved when I got it and that was due to inspection numbers on the front of the receiver preventing the hanger from seating firmly against the receiver . I corrected that before I ever shot it so I don't know how much effect it had but such parts should not wiggle !!
As a hunting rifle I didn't worry about ultimate accuracy , 1"groups [easily found ] were all I needed . The barrel has been cut to 22" and with that cartridge there is really no loss of velocity. A 1x4 scope provides all that I need for woods hunting .Deer have never complained !
Support the barrel at the sweet spot. Find this by holding the rifle by the buttstock with the barrel pointing down. Tap the barrel with a wooden rod at one inch intervals starting below the forend and going towards the muzzle. The barrel will ring when tapped. At a unspecified spot there will be a dull thud. That is the sweet spot. Mark the spot and support the rifle at that point. Sounds goofy but try it.
I have a Browning B-78 30-06 which is pretty much the same thing and accuracy has been better than I expected. Normally my single loaders are Ruger #1's in various configurations and the best results from the bench came from having the front bag literally hard up against the front of the receiver and trigger guard/lever. You might give that a try.
Paul B.
Paul B.
"Support the barrel at the sweet spot. Find this by holding the rifle by the buttstock with the barrel pointing down. Tap the barrel with a wooden rod at one inch intervals starting below the forend and going towards the muzzle. The barrel will ring when tapped. At a unspecified spot there will be a dull thud. That is the sweet spot. Mark the spot and support the rifle at that point. Sounds goofy but try it."
In all my years of owning rifles and shooting I have never heard of this. Any more detail you can share?
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In all my years of owning rifles and shooting I have never heard of this. Any more detail you can share?
_____
I shoot from cross sticks. This idea was brought to me by another BPCR shooter. The dead spot in the barrel is the area around which the rest of the barrel vibrates during firing. Using that spot as support does not alter the barrels normal vibrations. Supporting the barrel in other spots can change the barrel frequency. YMMV.
Jim Watson
New member
Assuming your Browning is a BPCR version, 99% of the ones I have seen shot were rested on the barrel. Including mine. The location can be found by David's mallet trick or by (gasp) shooting the gun supported at different locations and (wow) looking at the targets. Either way, mark the spot with a strip of tape. There are even bench sticks so you can shoot with the same support as with "buffalo sticks" in prone.
NoSecondBest
New member
Yeah, what do I know about shooting a High Wall in 45-70?
https://thefiringline.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=79754&d=1331665966
Fired at my range of 114yds....bench to backstop.
i have been shooting BPCG for a loong time,,and i have 4 hiwalls and 2, 74 sharps and a 75 sharps
i am not a great shooter but i do have some desk art and some wall art from the range
if you listen to what NoSecondBest has told you it WILL come together for you
these hiwall guns are VERY pressure sensitive,,,to much head pressure on the stock,,,to much barrel pressure,,,it all comes down to shooting and finding the magic sweet spot,,,that means pressure you are putting down on the gun
my meachum gun with 34" barrel likes the cross sticks about 2-2 1/2" in front of the forearm,,,my browning 30" barrel likes them right in front of the forearm,,,but it is shorter and has a hex to round barrel and that cut makes the harmonics way different
also the twist of the rifling will sometimes dictate what weight bullet the gun likes,,,most of the big guns 45 cal. have a 1-18 twist,,,and they like the heavier bullets 500-550gr,,,not always but most times
i have a browning traditional hunter little lighter gun but still a hiwall,,it has a 1-20 twist,,,about 425gr bullet is where accuracy starts going away,,it really likes the 380gr small gov. bullet
i will add that if you are going to shoot from the bench and you are going to use bags for support,,,,put you hand on the forearm just like you would be shooting the gun and put you hand on the bag for support,,,ie,,,bag,,hand ,,gun,,,,and try and keep the head to stock pressure the same shot to shot,,,,it will as NoSecondBest has said "make a big difference",,,,you will see the difference
when it all comes together your group should be in a circle,,,,stringing vertical or horizontal is telling you something,,,,,"hey i dont really like this you need to change something"
just some thought and my .02
ocharry
i am not a great shooter but i do have some desk art and some wall art from the range
if you listen to what NoSecondBest has told you it WILL come together for you
these hiwall guns are VERY pressure sensitive,,,to much head pressure on the stock,,,to much barrel pressure,,,it all comes down to shooting and finding the magic sweet spot,,,that means pressure you are putting down on the gun
my meachum gun with 34" barrel likes the cross sticks about 2-2 1/2" in front of the forearm,,,my browning 30" barrel likes them right in front of the forearm,,,but it is shorter and has a hex to round barrel and that cut makes the harmonics way different
also the twist of the rifling will sometimes dictate what weight bullet the gun likes,,,most of the big guns 45 cal. have a 1-18 twist,,,and they like the heavier bullets 500-550gr,,,not always but most times
i have a browning traditional hunter little lighter gun but still a hiwall,,it has a 1-20 twist,,,about 425gr bullet is where accuracy starts going away,,it really likes the 380gr small gov. bullet
i will add that if you are going to shoot from the bench and you are going to use bags for support,,,,put you hand on the forearm just like you would be shooting the gun and put you hand on the bag for support,,,ie,,,bag,,hand ,,gun,,,,and try and keep the head to stock pressure the same shot to shot,,,,it will as NoSecondBest has said "make a big difference",,,,you will see the difference
when it all comes together your group should be in a circle,,,,stringing vertical or horizontal is telling you something,,,,,"hey i dont really like this you need to change something"
just some thought and my .02
ocharry
NoSecondBest
New member
I guess you can call them misses. I call them groups. The last shot was where I turned the scope (Leupold) back to where I started and it ended up where I started. Groups are groups, doesn't matter where they hit, it's about how well they group. I spend a lot of time at the bench and it's paid off over the years. Good notes, good observations, and listening to those in the know.
Note: that scope is so repeatable I could sign my name with it.