Shooting in Florida

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ncpatriot

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Moderators, please feel free to move this if a thread has already started. I did not find one.

Is anyone familiar with the recent shooting in Sanford, Florida? A neighborhood watch captain shot a kid in his gated community. Kid had been to a store and was returning with snacks and a drink. The guy called police that he was a suspicious character, then tried to stop him and wound up shooting him.

From what little I've seen so far, this appears to have been an overzealous vigilante. Does anyone know differently? I've been challenged by a few anti gun friends on this and have merely told them I don't know the case yet.
 
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lonniemike

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You are right, overzealot vigilante. I'm amazed that the Citizen Patroler is not in jail. CP was told more than once to back off. Unless the Sanford PD had some dirt in the unarmed kid death that we commoners shouldn't know about, it stinks really bad. How long is yet untill I/we know the case? If it was your kid, how would you feel?
 
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Glenn E. Meyer

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http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2012/03/16/us/ap-us-neighborhood-watch-death.html?ref=us

We don't have all the facts yet but it does look very bad. Talking to antigun folks - I don't think you can defend this.

You might make the case that would you get rid of police totally because of the Diallo case? Thus, one terrible vivid tragedy doesn't determine overall policy. If you can come up with legit self-defense stories that would help.

I use this one of how a Glock 21 probably saved a woman from a brutal recidivist rapist - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Ayala,_Jr.

I do think the shooter (if he actually did what it seems) is a poster boy for getting serious training (not just the square range) if you carry a firearm.

Also, new posters to this thread - be careful. Don't go bloodlust, racial, etc. in ways which are not adult.
 
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ncpatriot

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Seems at best, he saw an unfamiliar kid & thought the worst. He had no right to chase or stop the kid if he was not doing anything wrong. Seems the kid was just walking back to his father's house when this happened. If I was the kid, I wouldn't stop & answer questions from a guy on the street either.

This man gives gun owners a bad name.
 
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Crazy88Fingers

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The shooter initiated contact and pursued the victim. The victim was apparently doing nothing wrong, and doesn't have any criminal record. If the teenager had shot the neighborhood watchman, then that probably would have been justified.

But, as it is, the shooter's claim of self-defense doesn't hold much water.
 
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Tom Servo

Staff
"These [redacted] always get away," he says to the operator. Zimmerman is then heard giving directions to the dispatcher.
Click to expand...
A prosecutor is going to use that to paint Zimmerman as a vigilante, and it sounds as if that depiction isn't far off the mark. This guy wasn't law enforcement, but a neighborhood watch captain...whatever that might entail. I doubt he has legal powers of arrest, and he shouldn't have engaged with force in the absence of an articulable threat.

This isn't an indictment of gun owners; it's a sad story of a man with an authority complex and an axe to grind.
 
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Skans

Active member
New information is coming out indicating that the shooter may have been acting in self defense. There is a recording of someone shouting for help repeatedly. The shooter says he's the one doing the shouting. The 17 year old's parents say it's his voice. Note also that it was originally reported that the 17 year old lived in the neighborhood. Now it seems that he was visiting from Miami.

Lots of facts are still missing. There is no way to conclude what exactly happened based on the facts that have been released so far. As to what a "prosecutor" will do, I think this isn't even relevant until the shooter is charged with something. To my knowledge, he hasn't been charged with any crime.
 
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Glenn E. Meyer

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Folks, why don't we hold off until we have more info.

I'm not wanting to shut this, but I will if we just do idle speculation.

That's a hint.
 
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AirForceShooter

New member
Facts are slowly coming out.
When they're all in we can figure out exactly what happened.

I know this.
Community Watchers are not supposed to be armed even if the have CCW's.

Got that from my Sheriff's office during a Watch organization meeting.

The job of a community watch is "observe and report"

What's amazing is the local sheriff didn't even arrest the guy.

AFS
 
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Oysterboy

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I used to be a security guard guarding construction sites. I was allowed to carry a gun on site. We have rules that are strictly followed. We are to observe and report (the office has a phone) and the gun is only for self protection. My boss drilled it into me, we are NOT police officers, understand?

I understood perfectly.
 
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Skans

Active member
Again, was the shooter part of Community Watch, or was he a hired security guard. I've heard both - and don't know which is accurate at this time.

We do know that the shooter called 911. This is what he was supposed to do. It also indicates that he didn't have any forethought about "murdering" anyone. Something happened between the time he called 911 and the time he fired his weapon. As to what happened, that information has not been released as far as I can tell.

Here are the questions that I still have:

1. Was the shooter a resident? Hired guard of some sort? Or both?
2. Was this a gated neighborhood?
3. How long had the shooter been employed/volunteered for patrolling the neighborhood? How experienced was he?
4. What was the 17 yo doing that made the shooter suspicious enough to call 911?
5. Where was the 17 yo from? What was he doing wondering around outside?
6. Who yelled out "help, help, help....." - was it the shooter or the 17yo?
7. Did they do an autopsy on the 17 yo? Test for drugs? Results?
8. What is the shooter's story?
9. Did the shooter have any physical injuries? Are there any physical signs of being attacked?
10. Was the shooter on foot or in a car when he called 911?

I'm not engaging in speculation, in fact I'm doing the opposite - trying to find if there are any factual answer to my above questions. As far as I can tell, these questions still remain unanswered to the public (perhaps not to the police, though).
 
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dlb0412

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Nobody knows the facts yet. Nobody knows what went on unless they were there. The media reports whatever they want true or false. You cant beleive what fox cnn or msnbc report. They all paint a different picture and most do it for different political reasons. The news is more opinion then real facts its pathetic. I dont know the details about the case so i cant say who was right or wrong. But i beleive theres more to it then we all know and the guy not being charged tells me alot. It might have been self defense. If they would have been the same race then i bet we wouldnt be talking about it. The news was reporting a white guy killed a black kid and was showing old pictures where he looks about 10 and innocent. Now they say the shooter was hispanic. I dout race had anything to do with the shooting but the media tries to make everything racial.
 
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Shakgul

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the picture.

Well just looking at the pictures Zimmerman looks like he is close to 200 pounds and the kid a buck fourty at most, so I think it's the kid screaming on the tape because the voice is kind of high pitched.
 
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dlb0412

New member
Weight doesnt mean much what does floyd mayweather jr weight. I bet he could beat up the fat man that was the shooter. In my opinion it sounded like the shooter screaming on the tape. It sounded like the same guy that made the 911 call. But i aint sure. The whole situation sucks and nobody knows what the deal is.
 
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Glenn E. Meyer

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I'm pulling the plug because we don't know the whole story and just speculating.

I strongly cautioned about going in the racial direction and I knew someone wouldn't listen and start to speculate about that.

Closed.
 
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