Shooting from standing position

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MLeake

New member
I realized recently that in every qual I've shot, we fired from prone and sitting. Most indoor ranges don't allow standing fire: the rifle areas, if they have them, usually require shooting from a bench. Even those that allow standing rifle, usually only have 25m at best.

Outdoor ranges typically have benches, that everybody uses.

So I had to shoot a qual last week that involved ARs and standing fire. I shot a 39/40, but the targets were generous, and I realized that I have really neglected the standing position.

Decided to do some more practice from standing. This week, took out my .50 T/C Hawken percussion, and shot at an 8" shoot and see target at 52 yards (I didn't choose 52 yards, it's what the conservation range's lane measured out to be.) Had no trouble keeping shots on the target, but grouping wasn't great. It will be a while before I start working on standing at 100yds with a Hawken.

Sometime in the near future, will start playing around with my own AR.

What is considered decent shooting from standing position? (Not decent for kraigwy, but decent for an average rifle shot who actually practices from standing. I suppose if kraigwy wants to chime in and up the goal, that's cool, too, but I'd like to have a short-term goal before the long-term goal.)
 
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Buzzcook

New member
Taking my time, I get 6" groups at 100yds. Well on a good day:eek:
That's with a scoped rifle. I doubt I'd be able to keep all my shots on paper with iron sights.
 
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Marquezj16

New member
With iron sights 4-6" at 50 yards 6-10 inches at 100 yards. Have not tried the 200 yard line. Will do in the near future.

That's just me, an average joe. I do want to practice it more but I usually shoot my AR15 bench, prone, sitting or kneeling. I shoot more offhand with my .22lr rifles at silhouette targets. Groups are not measured, just the satisfaction of a sound of a hit. :)
 
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arch308

New member
I think that is one of the hardest shooting skills to master. I wish I was better at it! I'm lucky to keep the group under 10" @ 100 yds. Seems snap shooting works best for me 'cause I can't hold steady at all. Admittedly, I don't practice it much. Once in a while when plinking I'll try & am always dissappointed.
 
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kraigwy

New member
Not decent for kraigwy
Click to expand...

Hey don't blame me, I am lousy in the offhand positition. Since I retired from the Guard and their rifle team, I'm too lazy to practice offhand. My shooting on my hind legs has really went to hell.

I still maybe can help with the question. The NRA Offhand target reduced to 100 yards has a "7" ring that's 12.35 inches across.

Assuming you can keep the shots in a 12 inch group at 100 yards, you'll have an acceptable score. Understand that its highly unlikely that all the shots will be in the "7" ring. They will be scattered throughout the X, 10, 9, 8 and 7 ring so you are going to be well north of 70%. You should be well into the 80s.

It's not unreasonable to accept the ideal of any shooter that has shot much at all to keep within a 12 inch circle.

The advantage in offhand shooting, over other positions is it dosn't cost much to practice because most of your offhand practice should be dryfiring.

If you don't have a range, lets say you only have 25 yards, OK no biggy, work your shots in a 4 inch group at 25 yards.

Also you dont need to wast money on match ammo or components. For my 100 yard practice I use bulk 224 bullets. From a good prone or setting position I can get them in the X-10 ring which on the 100 yard target is 3.5 inches. I cannot keep my offhand shooting in 3.5 inches, even when I use to practice a lot. As long as the rifle/ammo will, I figure I can get more practice for the buck by using the cheaper ammo.

Another option, if you cast bullets, its not hard to get a good cast bullet load that will shoot 4 inches at 25 yards. That's some good cheap practice.

The more you practice (assuming its good solid practice) the better you will be. The cheaper you can shoot, the more practice you can get.

Anyway. I think a 12 inch offhand group is respectable.
 
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MLeake

New member
Thanks for the inputs.

kraigwy, after seeing some of your sitting/rapid fire targets, I was expecting a smaller number. 12" seems somehow too reasonable... But now I have a starting point.

Appreciate it, guys.
 
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kraigwy

New member
OK to get a better ideal, here is the results from the 200 yards slow fire event from the 2011 National Matches.

http://www.nrahq.org/compete/natpdf/cp444-11.pdf

This was shot at 200 yards offhand, 20 shots. Forget the top of the pack, the OP is talking about average shooters. Look down where you see 180 and under. Most of the shooters fit this catagory.

Understand that at 200 yards the 7 ring I mentioned is 25 inches (a bit better then 2 feet). Again, if take into account that not all your shots will be in the 7 ring but scattered from the X to 7 ring. It's not hard to understand that a two foot group at 200 yards or one foot at 100 yards is reasonable and attainable for the average shooter.

The 10 ring on these (200 yard) targets is 7 inchs or 3.5 inches at 100 yards.

If you go back to the link I posted above, no one, even the winner was able to keep all their shots within 3.5 MOA in the offhand position.

I contend that if you can keep all your shots in 6 inches at 100 yards you have a pretty dern good chance of winning the National Matches.
 
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Ricky

New member
Standing

A few years back I was at the range for the annual pre dear season range shoot. I was shooting my Browning Bolt action 7mm rem. Mag from the bench at 100 yards. I had a few good 4 shot 1 inch groups and the guy next to me say's "lets see you do that standing up" I stood up and took one shot at the previously unmarked center bullseye. It took a while to find my shot and for a minute I thought I might have missed the target entirely. Then I found it, right on the X. I tried to play it cool like it happens all the time. Ha! I doubt I could have done that again with 50 more tries. On a good day I can get 10" groups at 100 yards standing. If I'm out deer hunting and see an animal that hasn't seen me yet I'll try to use something to steady my shot if it's more than 50 yards or so.
 
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Navy joe

New member
Keys for me are NPA so that the gun settles on the target, not muscling it, if you can't break the shot stop and take a breath, and accept the wobble. Slapping the trigger when everything looks perfect is asking for it. I suck at off-hand, I'm about 90-91 average in Highpower with an M-14.
 
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45ACPete

New member
standing position

In NRA or CMP HP matches the sling is not allowed for support in the standing position (but must be attached to the service rifle.)
 
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P-990

New member
Average, I'd expect most shooters to be around 10-12" at 100-yards, as kraigwy suggests. People who haven't been shooting offhand much do well to start off by keeping all rounds in the 5-ring at 200 yards, can't remember the measurement, be I think it's about 36" (18-MOA).

As a note, I'm a 94-96% offhand shooter, every once in a while a bit better, but that's with my AR Service Rifle and geared up. In a T-shirt and with a different rifle, I'd feel pretty comfortable keeping rounds on an IDPA target offhand to 200 yards.
 
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sc928porsche

New member
I try to practice all 5 shooting positions whenever I am at sending rounds down onto paper. When you are hunting, you never know for sure what position shot will avail itself.
 
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Picher

New member
I've been shooting offhand pretty well for over 55 years. I'm not as steady as I used to be, but can keep most of my shots inside 4 inches at 100 yards. Indoors, I've shot 3/8" five-shot groups on occasion, but my average is closer to 3/4".

As I get older, involuntary movements will cause me to throw about 1 in 10 shots, unless I practice fairly often. Game shots for me tend to be more accurate than informal target shooting, probably because I concentrate on reticle placement and trigger action seems like an automatic quick press as the target point is acquired, instead of a "planned" carefully-controlled squeeze that may anticipated a bit too much and slightly jerked.
 
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emcon5

New member
When I started shooting service rifle, my standing scores were down in he 70% neighborhood, by the time my eyes convinced me to try other things, my average was about 87% standing, with a number of matches in the 90s.

What improved my scores is one thing: dry fire practice.

I printed out a series of black dots, and hung them on the wall across the room until I found one that was the right size for the sight picture, then I practiced.

The aiming black on the across the course target is 6 MOA, so you can measure where you are going to be and do the math to find out how small they should be. For example, 20 feet you would use a dot about 1.2" across. The easy button is to use a 1" dot at 17'.
 
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Buzzcook

New member
Between 100 and 200yds my off hand shooting goes to pot. The target moves to much in the scope. Or rather I move too much.

I might be able to keep all my shots on paper once in a day.
 
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sundog

New member
emcon5 has the right idea, dry fire. During the off season for high power, it's either dry fire or when on a range trip, the match rifle goes along to shoot just a 20-round off hand for practice. Position shooting can make one a better marksman.
 
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kraigwy

New member
I contend that if you can keep all your shots in 6 inches at 100 yards you have a pretty dern good chance of winning the National Matches.
Click to expand...

To give you further proof that 12 inches at 200 or 6 at 100, would keep you in the winner's circle.

Here is the Offhand Results from the High Power portion of the Western Games.

http://clubs.odcmp.com/cgi-bin/report_eventAward.cgi?matchID=6478&eventID=11&awardID=2

Remember the X-10-9 ring is 13 inches at 200 yards or 6.5 inches at 100 yards.
 
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