Shooting Advice

[Daren Thompson]

Since I joined the national gaurd I have to qualify with the M9 pistol. I do fairly good both times I have I scored 29 out 30. I have a friend who is from CA never shot a gun before he joined the militay and he has beat me both times!!!!! He shot 30 out of 30. Now this is were it gets weird I invited him to shoot my guns and every time we shoot at paper targets my groups are much better and I ussually look like the better shot. Now why is it he can beat me at the pop-ups? I really feel that under timed pressure I must be forcing the shot causing me to miss one, can anyone give me some tips. tricks ,ect? I am going to try out for the State team and would like to give it my best shot even though I don't have much time to prepare
Thanks
Later
Daren

 

[motorep]

It's been my experience that when I start to miss moving targets it's because I'm not using the front sight anymore, I'm looking at the target. My answer, and my cure for the problem is the same as always - practice,practice,practice.

 

[Mikey]

This is going to sound crazy but I have seen it happen too often to discount it. In fact I am an example of the phenomenon. Many years ago I was shooting muzzleloaders with a local club and doing my usual mediocre job when a gent brought out some little steel buffalo silhouette targets. I hit the darn things every time at 100 yards offhand. When I voiced my amazement this fellow said he believed some people were "paper" shooters and some were "thing" shooters.

That was 25 years ago and now I shoot IDPA pistol matches. I still hit the steel better than the paper. For a while I shot metallic silhouette and made it to AA class in one year. In 2 1/2 years I can barely make sharpshooter in IDPA. Go figure!

 

[Grayfox]

I noticed years ago that the smaller the target, the better I shoot. Maybe your problem is simply that you've got too much target to deal with. Try teaching yourself to concentrate on one small section of the target and ignore the rest.

 

[4V50 Gary]

Stress can induce a shooter to throw shots and every shooter reacts different to different types of stress. Could be that under timed fire against stationary paper targets, your concentration and reaction under that stress (timed fire) is better. After all, you practice on paper targets all the time. Your friend may hold the edge on pop up type targets because he may be indifferent to the target and has no preconditioning.

Besides practice, consider things which he is doing which you may not. Are you using Weaver and is his isoceles? When in your Weaver, is your head slightly canted? If there are multiple pop up targets which requires you to maintain a wide view, the isoceles may be faster to see and once seen, more time to engage - which results in more time to sight in. FWIW, that's my experience with pop-ups.

Last, you're friend is really employed by Walt Marshall or Harry Humphries as a firearms instructor and he's hiding that secret from you.

 

[HS]

Try folding your paper targets into halves or thirds - might be of some practice help ?

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"The Gun from Down Under !"

 

[STEVE M]

You might also want to add some type of reacting targets to your practice. If a target is suppose to move when hit we have a tendancy to watch the target and not the front sight. Just my .02c

 

[Daren Thompson]

Thanks all
I like that bit about the tendency to watch the target not the sight I will concentrate to make sure I focus on the sight.
Thanks
Later
Daren

 

[RJ in Rome NY]

Hi... yes you probably are " forcing " the shot..
This is not unusal in timed and rapid fire ..
The best three pieces of advice I can think to give..

1. Develope a rhythm to the timed shooting..
2. Focus on the front sight ONLY and work on recovery.
3. SQUEEEEEEEZE the trigger with constant , but steady
pressure, while maintaining sight alignment..

Website... with TONS of shooting advice..
www.bullseyepistol.com

Good luck and feel free to respond..

Randy Swart

PS .. I'm RJ3819 on the AOL IM Buddy list..

 

[Ken Cook]

FOCUS on the front sight! Let all else be a blur. The bullet goes where the front sight is pointed.

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Your mind is your primary weapon.

 

[Steve Koski]

Daren,

Generally I can shoot pretty awesome groups during slowfire. When the clock is ticking and I'm under pressure I tend to flinch. I do drills with dummy rounds mixed in with live rounds every time I shoot to keep training myself not to flinch during the rapid fire stuff. For me, the trick is to squeeze the shots off as I would during slow fire, but faster. When I do it right I can cream the stuff under pressure.

Steve Koski
skoski@geneva.com

 

[Daren Thompson]

That is my problem, Trigger Control under pressure. I shoot well slow fire,but I always seem to have that G@#$%& D@#@ flyer round in my group.
Thanks for all the info guys
Later
Daren

 

[Harley Nolden]

Here's an old trick, works for me,. In combat shooting, most confrontrations occur between 3 to 7 yds, although important front sight focus, at this distance sight referencing is applicable. That is; we don't have time to actually focus on the sight, but we see it. I call it periferal (sp) sight.

To achieve the sight reference, look at the rear of the gun. The eye will automatically seek and reference the sight. Don't be afraid to pull the trigger. As long as the gun is in the center of mass, you will have a stopping shot.

Groups don't appear great, but the important thing is the "Stop Zone." A spaced group, in my opinion, gives distance to the kenetic energy of the bullets. Like a boxer, one good hit to the head, one to the solar plexous, will stop or slow down reaction. Just reverse the shot placement from to the boxer. You can put two to cener mass, and if he doesn't go down, "Head Shot"

HJN

 

[Rob Pincus]

DArren,

Some of this advice is good, some of it is horribly bad, IMHO.

Go buy as much ammo as you can afford and go practice shooting.

TAPE YOUR SIGHTS, shoot at about 3-5 yards.

Shoot AS FAST AS YOU POSSIBLY CAN (maintaing safety and reasonable combat accuracy.. (ie- hit the target, screw groups)


Do this and you'll soon find that you are incredibly comfortable with your gun and the fact that you don't need sight alignment, picture, focus or anything similar at those ranges. You can still use sights for longer shots, but you'll be so fast and comfortable that the sighting will be incidental to the shooting, you'll find your gun "pointing" where you want it, even at extended ranges.

Also, if you are serious about shooting as fast as you can safely, you'll find that the military time limits are laughably long.

This process takes PRACTICE. Don't fire 10 mags and figure your going to pick it up. Also, don't leave the gun in the firing postioin for full mags. Take a couple shots, lower the gun, then take a few shots, lower, etc....

Go back and search the "range Reports" threads I posted last year, you'll find some good drills in them.

 

[Daren Thompson]

Thanks all for the shooting advice. I shot today in the competition and right now it looks like I made seventh place. They choose the top ten to be selected for the state team, this is a liitle premature, but I think I made it, anyway I still placed better than I thought I would. Thanks again

Later
Daren

 

[Phil Degraves]

Respectfully, Rob, I have to disagree. Even at three yards it is best bring the gun to eye level and pick up the front sight. Hits will be much more consistent and with practice, it is not any slower. I tried this with sixty shooters, using the Speedwell T1 transitional target at three yards. Shooters were required to draw and fire two rounds each at two targets from a Pac Timer signal. Some people were faster than others, but most shot just as fast with more hits by bringing the gun up to eye level and picking up the front sight. For the novices, it was about three seconds with or without the sights but hits with the sights. Average shooters did it in about 2.5 seconds. The gun guys consistently did it under two seconds. All groups gave up accuracy if they watched the targets and none gave up time if they watched the sights. (The single best time was from a concealed carry, with hands starting in a surrender position with four hits in 1.58 seconds. The second best was 1.60 from field interview and a level 1 holster).

 

[Harley Nolden]

GRAY FOX:
You have pointed out a very important factor that many combat type shooters experience, and that is LOOKING AT THE TARGET. Someone else mentioned FOCUSING ON THE FRONT SIGHT.

There is a technique that is used uite extensively by Fed. Law Enforcement and that is, SIGHT REFERENCE.

In rapid fire, double or triple tap, at 3 to 7yds is difficult to say the least. However, sight referencing, not actually focusing on the sight, but seeing it, is all that is necessary.

Here how it works.

When the target is called, (faced) draw, instead of looking for the front sight, look at the back of the gun, BRING IT TO EYE LEVEL. You will see the sight, but the main thing is, the gun is in the center of mass and at the short distances you can't miss. YOU MUST TRUST WHAT YOU SEE, MASH THE TRIGGER. As the gengleman mentioned, the other gentleman mentioned. His groups were better that his partner, but his parner scored better. WHY? You are trying too hard to place your shot. USE THE CENTER OF MASS that is the "stop" zone.

As a matter of exterior end ballistics. Two shots placed with an inch of each other has less dispersion of kenitic energy to the body, resulting, most times, in a temp. disabling shot. Whereas; two shots placed 4" to 6" apart reslut in the same thing as a combination punch form a boxer. The first one temp. disables, the second disables when the kenetic energy form both rounds meet. Whaaaaaamo. Two closly place shots resemble one shot, creating poor dispersion of energy.