Shooting 22lr in the rain

[stagpanther]

Not as crazy as it may sound. Theoretically, lower air pressure, warm temperature and high humidity should all contribute to reduced air density--does this help 22lr bullets?

I decided to try and find out--rifle is CZ 457 topped by a Leaupold HD5. The Leaupold delivers in spades where all my other scopes would have issues of some sort or other--no fogging, crisp picture and resolution despite fog and water splatter. Bonus--even at top magnification of 35x there was no notable parallax distortion, that generally doesn't happen with natural sunlight out. My stash of "the good stuff" ran out so the only thing I have left to reach out a bit is Ely HV. Today I was shooting at 243 yards, I shot a few 10 shot groups which were around 5". However, one of the groups hand a tantalizing "subgroup" of 5 shots around 1"--could very well be the other shots were shooter error.

 

[tangolima]

Pretty cool. I did it a few times myself, not by my own choosing, but just didn't want to go back home.

The light is dim because of cloudiness. I probably will remain 10x in magnification to keep exit pupil large. I tend to have different take on high magnifications. I have been shoot soda can out to 200yd with 4x fixed scope. No problem identifying where I want to hit.

-TL

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[stagpanther]

You probably have much better eyes than I do. It may seem odd, but I use my best high-power scopes mostly on my 22lr rifles. A top-quality scope at 5x can give a better sight picture than a "run-of-the-mill" scope at 16 to 20x.

 

[tangolima]

My eyesight is pretty lousy; near sighted, astigmatic, and now old age. I have to update my progressive prescription annually. In my case dim light makes thing most difficult. I found low magnification helps. I reckon I don't need to read the label of the soda can to hit it. I just need to see its outline. High magnification doesn't buy me a lot.

Well it is easier than shooting soda can at 50yd with open sight.

-TL

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[stagpanther]

I think if I ever tried competitive shooting--22lr would probably be the type I'd like to try (or really BIG magnums ).A high power top quality scope would be essential for me. I can't find my favorite RWS ammo anywhere--so I bit the bullet and just ordered 10 boxes of Tenex--VERY expensive but it comes very close to performing as well as the RWS in my rifle.

 

[stagpanther]

While waiting for a batch of tenex to come in, I pretty much have to be satisfied with Ely HV--which is after all a high velocity hollow point meant for hunting. Nonetheless I'm having fun pushing it out past 50 yds. Today's forecast called for light easterly winds, which would have been a crossing tailwind but I thought very doable. By the time I got set up the winds turned to a pretty stiff quartering headwind of SW of 10 to 14 mph; southwest being the worst wind direction for where I shoot longer ranges. Here's 10 shots at 233 yds which I find very credible considering conditions--I think the HV is sort of a niche 22lr cartridge and I think it does very well for that niche.

 

[WmMunny]

Sure do hope ain't no one comin' down the road ;-)

 

[stagpanther]

No problem--gravel pit with plenty of room to bury things.

 

[tangolima]

Very good. I was also at range yesterday. After reloading another tube mag, I couldn't find the the soda can on the berm at 175yd. It had be covered well enough with dirt that I just lost sight of it. I ended up shooting another group on paper target at 100yd. I got 1 to 1.5moa. Aquila HV. Pretty sure it would be worse than your group if I try it farther than 200yd. There is 10" drop from 100yd to 150yd alone. It goes south really fast from 175yd to 200yd.

-TL



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[stagpanther]

Very good. I was also at range yesterday. After reloading another tube mag, I couldn't find the the soda can on the berm at 175yd. It had be covered well enough with dirt that I just lost sight of it. I ended up shooting another group on paper target at 100yd. I got 1 to 1.5moa. Aquila HV. Pretty sure it would be worse than your group if I try it farther than 200yd. There is 10" drop from 100yd to 150yd alone. It goes south really fast from 175yd to 200yd.

My pet theory of the moment is that while the supersonics still can't beat the subs (which includes those that go transonic very soon after leaving the muzzle) in terms of absolute accuracy--that holds mostly true in calm or near calm conditions. What I'm trying to ascertain is whether or not the super/HV's in the realm of 1250 +/- fps can possibly equal or beat the best match grade cartridges in moderate head/crosswind conditions. I consider 225 yds the "acid test barrier."

 

[tangolima]

My own observation with equipment and ammo is on the contrary. I have better hit rate with HV and it hits better. More practical if I need to go hunting rabbits etc with the skill.

-TL

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[stagpanther]

My own observation with equipment and ammo is on the contrary. I have better hit rate with HV and it hits better. More practical if I need to go hunting rabbits etc with the skill.

Are we talking hunting application vs target accuracy? I have no doubts the HV stuff would be better in hunting situations (assuming it actually hits the target) but my rather extensive testing at 200 yds+ with the HV stuff vs the best target stuff for measured group size still has not resulted in almost ANY instances where the HV stuff was more accurate than the best target stuff. That could possibly change at ultra long distance (for 22lr) maybe at 400 or more yards--but that is like throwing rocks to me.

 

[tangolima]

Not at all. I follow your threads on testing HV and subsonics. The results are pretty convincing. However, our situations are different. You have top notch rifle, optics and ammos. I have $90 marlin 81, $40 4x fixed scope, and Aguilar ammo. I just use it as simulation tool to train for long range center fire. With active corrections for wind, HV hits target (soda can) more consistently than subsonic. I am mostly target shooting, although I don't shoot groups but to hit.

I don't hunt. Hunting application is just an after thought. Soda can is smaller than a rabbit. I can hit a soda can consistently out at 175yd (still working on 200yd), then I should able to hit a rabbit, if I have to take a rabbit to survive. HV will do better for that, so one more reason for me to stay with HV. Thank Goodness I don't have to hunt for food so far.

-TL

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[stagpanther]

Not at all. I follow your threads on testing HV and subsonics. The results are pretty convincing. However, our situations are different. You have top notch rifle, optics and ammos. I have $90 marlin 81, $40 4x fixed scope, and Aguilar ammo. I just use it as simulation tool to train for long range center fire. With active corrections for wind, HV hits target (soda can) more consistently than subsonic. I am mostly target shooting, although I don't shoot groups but to hit.

I don't hunt. Hunting application is just an after thought. Soda can is smaller than a rabbit. I can hit a soda can consistently out at 175yd (still working on 200yd), then I should able to hit a rabbit, if I have to take a rabbit to survive. HV will do better for that, so one more reason for me to stay with HV. Thank Goodness I don't have to hunt for food so far.

That makes perfect sense to me.

 

[tangolima]

Oh one more reason for me to prefer HV. When it hits the can, the can moves more. When it misses, it kicks up more dust. It is easier for me to spot the shot. I used to use clay ducks as target. Subsonic is even worse. It doesn't crack the clay. Instead it just chipped it. A hit was spotted as a miss.

-TL

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[stagpanther]

Tenex came in and I was itching to go out and try it. Unfortunately winds were cross/gusty so I didn't want to waste my ammo (Tenex is about $40 a box delivered to my door) and tried to get the wind as much as I could at my 6 and ended up shooting at 138 yds. It was to no avail, wind was just too switchy so my strategy was try to get as many shots off as I could in what looked like consistent velocity/direction. That worked for a few shots, but not for a whole 5 shot group. While I did mange a few groups with 3 shots touching, overall I was getting around 2 to 2.5 MOA. I blew off an entire box--so that was 10 x 5 shot groups. Was kinda disappointed but maybe my technique just wasn't up to the task. Before leaving I thought I would try a couple groups of Ely's HV just out of curiosity--the first group equaled the over-all best group size of the tenex while the second 5 shot group of HV beat the best I got with tenex. Doesn't prove anything conclusively--though I thought it was interesting nonetheless. Hopefully the tenex will redeem itself in more calm conditions.

 

[stagpanther]

Between storm fronts I went out again today--this time I had the room to push out to 240 yds. As is usually the case--things looked great when I left home, but by the time I got set up a prevailing headwind SSW had set up between 5 and 10 mph. I shot 6 x 5 shot groups of the tenex the only reason I didn't blow off an entire box again is that storm clouds rolled in and the winds picked up dramatically. These are the three best groups, I did the best I could to pick equalized conditions but at that distance it was very difficult. Hopefully one of these days I'll get a chance at truly calm conditions--I suspect the results with tenex will improve markedly.

 

[stagpanther]

Just received notice that my R-100 has shipped--I look forward to an "ultimate showdown" between it and the tenex at over 200 yards. I've found that around 175 yrds there is something of a "22lr barrier" where most of them are going to either destabilize or "keep it together" to longer ranges out of my rifles.

53 cents a shot!

 

[tangolima]

Wow, $0.53 a round .22LR?! That's real dedication to the cause brother.

I also found 175yd is a hard barrier to cross. I shoot 7 cents a round Aguilar, mind you. The soda can hit rate just drop from 50% to 5% for an additional distance of 25yd. I haven't heard of a satisfactory explanation yet. There is always a point at which a bullet just can't make it, said a long range shooting instructor. He was referring to the sound barrier. But in my case it should have happened much earlier. And in your case there isn't no sound barrier.

But to be fair to ourselves. We probably are asking for too much. Look at those top competitors in the mile long shot competitions. 6' x 6' target. They walk the shot to make a "ding". My silly .22LR can still hit pretty well if I change the target from soda can to a 8" plate.

-TL

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[stagpanther]

The single biggest improvement you can make in shooting 22lr long distance is also the cheapest--shoot when it is absolutely calm.