Shoot'em in the groin - simulated range test

[Gopher .45]

After the discussion two or three weeks back about shooting goblins in the groin, several of us got together for our regular range night and decided to see how well we could do it. You may recall that the previous discussion tauted the merits and drawbacks of trying to shoot the groin. It was harder than we thought it would be.

Shooting was done from 7-10 yards, with the shooter and target stationary. We put up a silhouette and taped a water balloon (filled with air) to the groin area at the bottom of the target. Water balloons were used because we could fill them to full size and they would only be about the size of a standard light bulb. The only shots to the groin that counted, that we felt were to provide the catostrophic scrotal and testicular failure, were the shots that popped the balloon. The drill was to do a double tap to COM and then shots to the groin (balloon) until it popped. Each shooter was prompted to draw from covered holster (vest or jacket) and complete the task as fast as possible. Situational pressure was provided by prompting the shooter via yelling "GUN!!!" and then having everybody standing around and scrutinizing the shooters abilities as he was shooting.

Results:

Four of us were shooting .45s and one person shooting a 9 mm. Of the five of us, only the expert accomplished the task in four shots (two being to the chest). I took 5 or 6 shots. Another guy took 8, another 9, and one poor guy went through 20+ shots (we had to keep feeding him mags).

Part of the high shot numbers was due to the fact that the balloon actually flinched sometimes from the oncoming bullet's pressure wave and so COS (center of scrotum) shots were the only shots that produced reliable results.

Conclusions:
Hitting that small of a target reliably during the drill was a difficult task under simulated pressure conditions. Additionally, counting on the bullet to provide destruction to something as fragile as a balloon for near misses and what would be scrotal edge shots proved unreliable.


It was a fun drill and something I encourage people to try. The small balloons work very well for being heart shots as well. You simply go with the idea that until the balloon pops, you have not hit the heart or major blood vessels feeding it.

 

[Hard Ball]

Interesting test. Also interesting that some goblins have neither scrotum or testicles....though they do have labia. They're called women.
Rich

 

[George Hill]

While a goin hit has a mental effect - its far from an ideal target. There are some rather large vessles and arteries that go through that region - but you would have to hit one for any effect.
Rather a center torso hit has a much greater and quicker disabling effect.
Its also easier to hit.
Dont try to be fancy.
Aim Center Mass.
Hit first and hit hard and hit often.

 

[Oleg Volk]

I wouldn't try for such a hit except with a shotgun and even then head would be a better target. Just get a rifle and you can punch through the center of the goblin.

 

[Gopher .45]

Y'all are too funny! And the shortcomings of some goblin having labia was an issue originally discussed in the shoot'em on the groin thread a few weeks back. Actually, there are a lot of shortcomings to trying this. See [Link to invalid post]

The context of that thread included something about a person taking a Texas CHL class and the instructor suggested not the 2 to the chest, one to the head method, but 2 to the chest and then to the groin. While any shot that hits the body is better than a miss, the expected great results insinuated in hitting a guy there are very difficult to come by. So a slight miss of the reproductive system and hit to the body would hurt, but there is no real good logical reason to try to shoot the groin itself.

As for hitting the pelvis, there are few records of people being successful in performing the magical "break the pelvis" shot. I queried TFL'ers about reported incidents of this and only found two examples. Handgun ammo is generally not all that powerful and hitting the correct parts of the pelvis to cause a break are more difficult. For a more detailed discussion of shooting the pelvis, See [Link to invalid post]

Our bubba-science testing was just a fun way of trying to see if hitting the 'nads would be all that hard or not. And, we did have a great time, but learned something as well! And before anyone asks, there was no beer involved in any part of the testing or observation.

 

[Dennis]

Gopher, "no beer involved in any part of the testing or observation."

We won't ask about the subsequent "analysis-in-depth"!

 

[Jay Baker]

I believe in practice and a lot of it, with as much "practical" practice as possible.

That said, always remember that in a real shooting incident, in which you have to poke a bad guy TWICE in the center mass area, and he's wearing a vest, he is NOT going to then be standing stationary, just waiting for you to carefully aim that third round to center his jewels. He'll be moving, jumping, etc., and very possibly, slinging lead at you.

I say if you have to go for that third round, try for the head shot. It's a bigger target.

FWIW. J.B.

 

[4V50 Gary]

What if you miss the groin but hit the femoral artery instead? Does bleeding out count?

 

[Country Boy]

COS-Center of Scrotum? HAHAHAHAHA!! Snort, Snort, Giggle

 

[Steve Smith]

Hard Ball, indeed, the Labia shot would be mighty tough! I wonder if that should be included in future "faliure to stop" drills?

 

[C.R.Sam]

Bleeding out does not STOP the bad guy. He gets to die after doing you harm.

Sam...they also don't always hurt right away.

 

[Gopher .45]

Jay Baker, we couldn't get anyone to charge the shooter while carrying the silhouette to add the third dimension to our test.

Femoral artery hits are great if you have 5 minutes or so you can wait for the guy to bleed out. If y'all saw the FBI Miami shootout on the Discover Channel or the older version on the History Channel, you will really come to understand how painfully slow bleeding out is in a crisis situation. Of the goblins in the shootout, the guy with the Mini-14 was first shot across the chest, through a lung and ripping one of the heart blood vessels (pulmonary artery?). He lived long enough to kill several FBI guys and sustain another 10 wounds. The first shot was fatal and as one agent said, the bad guys were dying, they just weren't dying fast enough.

So in previous groin shot thread, the groin shot was supposed to be a stop shot if 2 to the chest didn't work. The mental and physical reaction to such a shot might really have a detrimental affect on the goblins behavior (or maybe not). Point is, getting that COS shot is really hard (no pun) to do. In other words, even if the shot would work, most people have little or no chance of making it intentionally (I surmise). It is way to small of a target. Heads on the shoulders are a much better target indeed.

 

[griz]

I don't understand the reasoning that the head would be less of a moving target than the groin. Seems like the groin will be moving in whatever direction the rest of the body is going, while the head could be moving up and down or side to side. That said, it does seem like some people like the idea of non fatally removing the BG from the gene pool rather than any tactical advantage this shot offers.

 

[Bam Bam]

Know your target, and what is beyond...

Perhaps an advantage to becoming an accomplished Groin-Meister is the downward trajectory of the shot. If you shoot and miss the bullet can hit the dirt in a reasonable distance. If you miss the head it may land God-knows-where or hit a bystander. Also a leg shot may slow 'em down enough for another shot to a vital organ...

And don't discount the effect of hitting the bladder/kidney. Right now I work in an urologists office. A patient (convict now) get shot in the lower body and may die of some kind of gangrene. Too bad he didn't know enough to stay out of trouble.

 

[Ding]

Yes, a kidney shot will induce instant shock and can be useful for disabling the BG temporarily until you can get a clear shot at the COS.

 

[Curuzer]

I'm glad my original post has resulted in additional Research & Development work. Undoubtedly this is a groundbreaking contribution to humanity. I am likely to win the Nobel Prize in Scrotumotimy. Thanks to all of you for your recognition.

 

[Bam Bam]

Did I forget to mention a good way of getting out of paying the bill for urological surgery is to go to prison, get gangrene, and die.