Yesterday was the second time out with this rifle in 308. It was to sight in the new Mueller APT scope I put on it. Six rounds and it was sighted in. Groups were running .70 to .78 off of a bipod. This was with Remington Core Lokt 150gr and my handloads of 168gr SMK's over 42.5grs of RL 15. First tine out with this rifle the largest group was .69 smallest .65 withe the Core Lokts. Everyone says this stock is crap but with different articles I read the remingtons with "better" stocks are only doing marginally better. Does it nake sense to change the stock considering this barrel isn't even shot in yet?
Second time out with Remington ADL Varmint and a question
- Thread starter Rob96
- Start date
James R. Burke
New member
I take it this is going to be a deer rifle. I would say it is shooting just fine, plus it might even get better. That is good shooting in my book.
OK, let me see if I got this straight. You are concerned because:
* Your brand new economy-grade rifle is shooting sub-MOA
* Your first attempt handloads shoot pretty much like factory ammo, all sub-MOA
* You are shooting off of a bipod and shooting sub-MOA
So what exactly was the question again? Not too many years ago, a rifle that shot sub-MOA was rare. Now it's a piece of junk? FWIW, your rifle is shooting great, don't sweat it.
If you want better groups:
* Work on fine-tuning your handloads.
* Shoot off a rest rather than a bipod.
* Your brand new economy-grade rifle is shooting sub-MOA
* Your first attempt handloads shoot pretty much like factory ammo, all sub-MOA
* You are shooting off of a bipod and shooting sub-MOA
So what exactly was the question again? Not too many years ago, a rifle that shot sub-MOA was rare. Now it's a piece of junk? FWIW, your rifle is shooting great, don't sweat it.
If you want better groups:
* Work on fine-tuning your handloads.
* Shoot off a rest rather than a bipod.
Hi,
Congrats on getting a Remington, I have one and love it.
What you need to do now is write down carefully all the parameters of your load and stick to it.
If this is going to be your hunting rifle you'll do fine with it. just change the SMK's to Game Kings when you go hunting.
Brgds,
Danny
Congrats on getting a Remington, I have one and love it.
What you need to do now is write down carefully all the parameters of your load and stick to it.
If this is going to be your hunting rifle you'll do fine with it. just change the SMK's to Game Kings when you go hunting.
Brgds,
Danny
pythagorean
Moderator
What Scorch said. Any rifle that groups MOA is a prize to keep.
This is the supposed crappy synthetic stock, the same that comes with the SPS Varmint. Until I develop the loads a little further I may be seeking something that I'm already getting. Funny thing is there was a guy on the same range with a really nice custom built, read a few thousand dollars, and he said my rifle shoots as well as his....lol
Life is a lot less complicated if you don't try to fix thinks that aren't broke . Your rifle will never shoot any better than it is right now . Well maybe a little , but it'll cost you a small fortune . It's my observation that ADLs in synthetic stocks shoot better than any of the drop floor plate models . Do you suppose that is because the stocks are stiffer without that cutout just behind the recoil lug ?Fat White Boy
New member
I doubt if you will see much better accuracy than .65 MOA without putting a ton of money into it. Why change anything? My Winchester Model 70(.270Win) from WalMart shoots clover leafs with CoreLokt ammo. I haven't nor will I, change anything...
I have an SPS V in .308 that shot pretty well out of the box. 5 shot .68. That was with my handloaded match ammo. I dropped the rifle into a Bell& Carlson Medalist and the first group shot was .38 (3-shot) with ammo I loaded that was not to match specs. In my case it simply made a good gun that much better. You hear a lot of anti-Remington junk out there these days, saying how poorly the rifles are made. Surely cannot prove it by your rifle, or mine.
Hi,
I disagree.
My remington 700 BDL, wooden stock (30-06) has had nothing done to it other than free floating the barrel (which took me a whole 20 minutes to do) and with good load development I get (repeated) groups that are sub-caliber.
You can get a Remington to shoot very tight without spending tons of money on it.
Brgds,
Danny
Okay, since no one else will do it, I'll step up to the plate. If this were the gong show-I'd be swinging away!!!!!!!!!!!!
.6-.7's with a factory Remington? I was born at night, but not last night.
You guys are really very funny.. But you have been forgetting to put the smiley face after the bull Schlop
Oh wait, this is a dream sequence right? Soon you'll wake up to the reality.
Dannyl that was pretty funny too. Remingtons that will shoot well WITHOUT spending a ton of money!!!!! Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha That type of statement flies directly in the face of the THOUSANDS of gunsmiths who specialize in Remington work (just to get them to shoot as accurately as several other rifles do right out of the box).
I did not know there was a comedy section on this site, but I guess I found it!
You guys take care, but keep your day jobs.
.6-.7's with a factory Remington? I was born at night, but not last night.
You guys are really very funny.. But you have been forgetting to put the smiley face after the bull Schlop
Oh wait, this is a dream sequence right? Soon you'll wake up to the reality.
Dannyl that was pretty funny too. Remingtons that will shoot well WITHOUT spending a ton of money!!!!! Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha That type of statement flies directly in the face of the THOUSANDS of gunsmiths who specialize in Remington work (just to get them to shoot as accurately as several other rifles do right out of the box).
I did not know there was a comedy section on this site, but I guess I found it!
You guys take care, but keep your day jobs.
davlandrum
New member
Because people are posting based on their experience, they are comedians?
Your post is the funny one, since it implies there is no way anything ever came out of a Remington factory that would shoot that well...
My SPS is MOA, probably would be better if I was. It has the "crappy" stock on it that seems to work fine for me.
Your post is the funny one, since it implies there is no way anything ever came out of a Remington factory that would shoot that well...
My SPS is MOA, probably would be better if I was. It has the "crappy" stock on it that seems to work fine for me.
If the guy was claiming that he was getting 2-3" groups, and was asking for help to shrink those, I would have taken it a bit more seriously. However, coming on a gun site, and posting that you are getting close to half MOA with Remington Core-Lokt ammo (& his hand-loads), with an out of the box Remington, should be setting off BS meters.
Sorry, I've shot several new Remingtons, and even with tailored hand-loads those types of groups would not be the norm.
Now is it possible that he got that 1 in a million Remington that will shoot that well out of the box? Well, yes, I guess it is possible. But I'd think it more likely that Peter Pan would fly out of the sky and guide my bullets to the bulls-eye first. Remington has a reputation-and it's NOT for out of the box accuracy. That title is held FIRMLY by Savage. Now if he said he had a Savage.. I'd buy it and never give it a second thought.
Here's a quick way to end this post... Those of you with FACTORY BOX STOCK Remingtons-post up pics of your half-MOA groups..
.....and that's all folks..
Sorry, I've shot several new Remingtons, and even with tailored hand-loads those types of groups would not be the norm.
Now is it possible that he got that 1 in a million Remington that will shoot that well out of the box? Well, yes, I guess it is possible. But I'd think it more likely that Peter Pan would fly out of the sky and guide my bullets to the bulls-eye first. Remington has a reputation-and it's NOT for out of the box accuracy. That title is held FIRMLY by Savage. Now if he said he had a Savage.. I'd buy it and never give it a second thought.
Here's a quick way to end this post... Those of you with FACTORY BOX STOCK Remingtons-post up pics of your half-MOA groups..
.....and that's all folks..
The below picture was my target after a range session last year. The rifle was a Remington 700 BDL Synthetic in .270. There are eight rounds on paper. Seven of the eight rounds will fit under a quarter. The flyer was shooter era. My 1980 700 ADL in .30-06 will pull sub MOA as well. Neither gun has ever been worked on or tweaked. So the Remington haters can blow smoke all day long... I'll believe what my rifles have to say instead of some hater on the interweb...
sfw, I have an idea.. Instead of "blowing smoke" why don't we meet at Hotwells Shooting range-just up the street from you. That's right-I'm your neighbor. You can bring your Remington, and I'll bring a BOX STOCK SAVAGE. We'll lay 'em side by side on the bench, and something tells me that I WILL NOT SEE anything even remotely close to half-MOA from a BOX STOCK Remington.
I'll show you what half-MOA from a factory assembled, factory built, non-tuned rifle looks like. Bring your video camera so that when you want to remember what half-MOA looks like-you'll have a way to do it.
Anyone else in the area care to join in? We can really make this interesting, I'll bet my FACTORY Savage will outperform any FACTORY Remington you guys can bring to the bench. When I say factory, I mean no modifications of any kind. Nothing from a custom shop either. Not even a trigger tweak.
Also, in regards to called flyers... I don't play that. 5 shots is 5 shots and all 5 count. 4 out of 5 don't mean squat. If your rifle can't put 5 rounds into a tight group-well, you better leave that one at home.
Did I mention that I have a cheap 16X fixed power Tasco Target scope on my rifle. Brand new the scope cost $89.00. Bring your Remington with your high dollar optics if you care to, and I promise you I'll put it in it's rightful place-LAST IN THE ACCURACY LINE.
I don't really hate Remington guys.. I just don't buy into the fallacy that they are anything special. They are not. Mossberg, Marlin, Savage/Stevens, Browning, Sako, Tikka.. Can you even think of a new gun that won't beat the new Remingtons in accuracy...?? I see Remington for what they are a has-been. Their time in the sun has long past and lately from all of the negative posts I see from people having problems with them, their reputation is going the same direction as the Titanic, and almost as fast.
It's great that you own a Remington, and that you have pride in it. But don't be foolish and let that pride blind you to the facts. To do so will leave you in a position for a rude awakening. Reality is not kind, and Remingtons are not that accurate.
I'll show you what half-MOA from a factory assembled, factory built, non-tuned rifle looks like. Bring your video camera so that when you want to remember what half-MOA looks like-you'll have a way to do it.
Anyone else in the area care to join in? We can really make this interesting, I'll bet my FACTORY Savage will outperform any FACTORY Remington you guys can bring to the bench. When I say factory, I mean no modifications of any kind. Nothing from a custom shop either. Not even a trigger tweak.
Also, in regards to called flyers... I don't play that. 5 shots is 5 shots and all 5 count. 4 out of 5 don't mean squat. If your rifle can't put 5 rounds into a tight group-well, you better leave that one at home.
Did I mention that I have a cheap 16X fixed power Tasco Target scope on my rifle. Brand new the scope cost $89.00. Bring your Remington with your high dollar optics if you care to, and I promise you I'll put it in it's rightful place-LAST IN THE ACCURACY LINE.
I don't really hate Remington guys.. I just don't buy into the fallacy that they are anything special. They are not. Mossberg, Marlin, Savage/Stevens, Browning, Sako, Tikka.. Can you even think of a new gun that won't beat the new Remingtons in accuracy...?? I see Remington for what they are a has-been. Their time in the sun has long past and lately from all of the negative posts I see from people having problems with them, their reputation is going the same direction as the Titanic, and almost as fast.
It's great that you own a Remington, and that you have pride in it. But don't be foolish and let that pride blind you to the facts. To do so will leave you in a position for a rude awakening. Reality is not kind, and Remingtons are not that accurate.
You play a strange game.
I've been shooting for over 40 years, and occasionally I pull a shot. When I do , I own up to it. Its not the rifle's fault.
3/4" groups from any stock rifle is bragging rights. But only if your game is group size. And there's a lot more to shooting than just group size.
Could we please tone down the chest thumping a bit?
For the OP, you could spend a lot of time, money and tears and never get better perfromance from your Remington. And going to a Savage might not change anything either.
Its your gun, change what e'er you want. Just be aware that you could just as easily make things worse. And it might not be possible to get back to where you are right now.
I got a bunch of rifles that according to some I ought to leave home, cause they won't put 5 shots in a nice tight group. But they will put the first one or two right where I aim. I don't need better than that.
Kawabuggy, after I return from my vacation, I would love to go shooting with you. The flyer was caused by my not paying attention to what I was doing. I don't see that as a fault to the gun. And as I said in my post, there are eight rounds on paper- not five. I am sure that your Savage is a great gun. I believe that my 700 is a great gun. The bottom is this: use what makes you happy. I just don't care to hear people down playing a great platform. I don't think the United States Marine Corps would have chosen the 700 for their sniper rifle if it wasn't a solid gun. And I am definitely tired of all the "Company X doesn't make them like they used to" talk that I see all over the net. Most of my rifles and shotguns say Remington. I don't see that changing as long as they offer solid guns that do their job: putting meat in my freezer.
PS: Yes, my 700 is bone stock. And yes, I have a nice Nikon scope on it- because I like to see what I'm shooting. And to put all of this into context... even with the flyer, all of these shots would be "in the kill zone" for a whitetail deer.
PS: Yes, my 700 is bone stock. And yes, I have a nice Nikon scope on it- because I like to see what I'm shooting. And to put all of this into context... even with the flyer, all of these shots would be "in the kill zone" for a whitetail deer.
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Kawabuggy, if you want to start arguments please go to another forum
Hi,
First, you did not really insult me, but I find your comments annoying.
I take comments according to who they come from, and you do not impress me as someone I should worry about too much.
furthermore, TFL is not meant for swapping insults but for swapping advice and experience. If you have nothing useful to contribute, give your KB a rest.
If you are a rubble rouser, please go to other forums.
If you want to have a meaningful debate, keep your offending commetns in your pocket.
No one says that Remington are necessarily the best rifles, but I have seen worst. Also, you may want to consider that quality of reloading, load development and to a great extent the shooter have a lot to do with the performance of any rifle.
BTW, in my shooting club there are several of us with Remingtons (most of them .308's mine is 30-06) that regularly achieve these kind of groups.
This is as far as I am going to go in replying to your post, I have no intention of debating this further .
BTW, I just came back from a week of hunting. between myself and my wife we got 9 bucks, all taken with single shots. I like to say that my rifle shoots "Minute of Sprinbok"
Brgds,
Danny
Hi,
First, you did not really insult me, but I find your comments annoying.
I take comments according to who they come from, and you do not impress me as someone I should worry about too much.
furthermore, TFL is not meant for swapping insults but for swapping advice and experience. If you have nothing useful to contribute, give your KB a rest.
If you are a rubble rouser, please go to other forums.
If you want to have a meaningful debate, keep your offending commetns in your pocket.
No one says that Remington are necessarily the best rifles, but I have seen worst. Also, you may want to consider that quality of reloading, load development and to a great extent the shooter have a lot to do with the performance of any rifle.
BTW, in my shooting club there are several of us with Remingtons (most of them .308's mine is 30-06) that regularly achieve these kind of groups.
This is as far as I am going to go in replying to your post, I have no intention of debating this further .
BTW, I just came back from a week of hunting. between myself and my wife we got 9 bucks, all taken with single shots. I like to say that my rifle shoots "Minute of Sprinbok"
Brgds,
Danny
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