Second-strikers

[Pathfinder45]

I was wondering if there is a list of single/double-action autopistols that separates those with second-strike capabilities from those without. Of particular interest in that regard, would be the CZ-75 pistols. I'm a lot more familiar with revolvers but could use some knowledge from others in the auto-pistol world.

 

[TunnelRat]

I was wondering if there is a list of single/double-action autopistols that separates those with second-strike capabilities from those without.

If you mean pistols capable of both single action and double action modes, then all of those should be capable of second-strike capability.

 

[JohnKSa]

As far as I know, all "single/double-action autopistols" have second strike capability.

It's only when you get into "DAO" pistols that you end up with some ambiguity based on specifically how the "DAO" feature is implemented by a particular manufacturer.

 

[Theohazard]

I agree with TunnelRat and JohnKSa: I can't think of any DA/SA pistols that aren't second-strike capable. I'm pretty sure that even the unusual category of striker-fired DA/SA pistols like the Walther P99AS or Canik TP9 are second-strike capable, though I'd appreciate an owner of one of those pistols chiming in to confirm.

 

[jetinteriorguy]

The Taurus PT111 G2 is a striker fired pistol with second strike capability.

 

[kozak6]

"Second strike" capability isn't really a big deal. It's just a marketing term invented to sell ordinary double action capabilities to the unknowledgeable.

All DA/SA pistols, hammer or striker fired, offer second strike capabilities. This does include most (but not all) CZ-75 variants.

Note that even when the capability exists, pulling the trigger a second time isn't taught as a step in clearing malfunctions. If a round malfunctions, you probably want to kick it out of the gun rather than trying it again.

It's only when you get into "DAO" pistols that you end up with some ambiguity based on specifically how the "DAO" feature is implemented by a particular manufacturer.

True. For example, Kahr describes their pistols as DAO, but they actually use pretensioned strikers and there is no second strike. I think they only describe them that way since the long trigger pull feels more like a DA.

 

[Fishbed77]

I'm pretty sure that even the unusual category of striker-fired DA/SA pistols like the Walther P99AS or Canik TP9 are second-strike capable, though I'd appreciate an owner of one of those pistols chiming in to confirm.

The P99AS has second-strike capability.

 

[lee n. field]

For example, Kahr describes their pistols as DAO, but they actually use pretensioned strikers and there is no second strike. I think they only describe them that way since the long trigger pull feels more like a DA.

The whole Internet gun social media world is pretty sloppy and inconsistent in the way folks categorize triggers.

 

[carguychris]

I'm pretty sure that even the unusual category of striker-fired DA/SA pistols like the Walther P99AS or Canik TP9 are second-strike capable...

The P99AS has second-strike capability.

As do the P99-derived Magnum Research MR Eagle and S&W SW99.

The original no-suffix Canik TP9 had it as well, although FWIW Canik is no longer cataloging this pistol—they're only offering its "improved" and strictly single-action* derivatives such as the TP9SA and TP9SF Elite.

*Unlike the common ploy of marketing second-strike-incapable striker pistols as DAO, Canik doesn't even pretend—they describe their pistols as straight-up, unaldulterated, unfiltered single-action only. I think they're also unpasteurized, gluten-free, and non-GMO.

 

[JoeSixpack]

any DAO or DA/SA gun should be 2nd strike.

SA guns of course need to be cocked.
most striker guns fall under this (even if they're called DAO or something else in spec)

Most of the Taurus strike guns are double strike capable, starting with the Millennium pro (3rd gen) (replaced with G2 models) and the 24/7's

I know I just bought a slim 709 and it is also 2nd strike.

I kinda like the option of a 2nd strike, most will say just rack the slide, and there is nothing wrong with that mentality but dud's in center fire imo are pretty rare to start with.. I think it usually ends up being light strikes rather then bad rounds.. I've shot once dimpled rounds I've picked up at the range (ya I know you really shouldn't shoot stuff found on the ground) but pretty much always goes bang for me.

So in the rare case it does not go bang the first time it's been my limited exp that the 2nd hit has a very high success rate.

So I won't buy a striker gun based on this feature alone but I'll take it if I can get it.. why not?

 

[jackstrawIII]

Personal anecdote about "second strike capability".

I shoot a LOT of CZs. I've put thousands and thousands of rounds through my CZs. In all that time, I have NEVER had a failure to fire with a first strike that was then fired at the second strike.

Let me explain that again, in my thousands and thousands of rounds using both new and remanufactured ammo, I've never seen a "second strike" prove useful in any way. If a round doesn't ignite on the first shot, it's probably not going to ignite on the "second strike".

Much better idea to practice the classic tap-rack-bang.

 

[TunnelRat]

Let me explain that again, in my thousands and thousands of rounds using both new and remanufactured ammo, I've never seen a "second strike" prove useful in any way. If a round doesn't ignite on the first shot, it's probably not going to ignite on the "second strike".

The only time I've seen it ignite on the second strike was on a pistol with a worn out hammer spring. I've seen it, but as you say it's likely best to eject the round.

 

[Glenn E. Meyer]

I've read the endless arguments about how great a second strike capacity is.

Is there any real evidence that a second strike saved the day as compared to a tap, rack, bang procedure?

I've been in enough classes that always teach t,r,b. No one said - oh, you have a second strike capacity try that before you find out that the round is a dud.

We run drills with an unknown dummy round just to practice quick failure to fire drills.

Why don't revolver folks just rotate the cylinder back to the bad round to try again?

 

[BigMikey76]

Pretty much the only time I find "second strike" to be useful is when I'm dry firing; it keeps me from having to rack the slide every time I pull the trigger, and allows me to practice keeping the gun steady throughout the longer and heavier double action pull. For example, doing double action dry fire practice with my old CZ P-07 prepared me nicely for my new SD9

 

[Ricklin]

Bravk

Big Mikey .makes a great point. Dry fire is great practice, and easier is better.

 

[random guy]

The value of second strike capability to me is that it indicates that I have a true double action trigger which I happen to like for the first shot.

The only centerfire round I've ever had fail to fire was never going to fire...it had no powder in it. It left the bullet wedged up really tight in the start of the rifling. Would make for a great drill. That bullet was not coming out without a rod and hammer. Tap, rack, bang just drove it in tighter. A second TRB might well have blown the gun up.

 

[jetinteriorguy]

In my revolvers every single time a round has failed on a first strike, it has fired on a second strike. Whether or not this would apply to a semi auto pistol I don't know. I guess it would depend on the reason for the initial failure.

 

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Yeah, but in a revolver when you pull again, you rotate to a new round. So, I guess if you want to wait till it comes around again - that's fine but not tactically relevant to staying the immediate fight.

The issue with semis is whether you are better off ditching the round than seeing if it does nor does not go. If not, then you got to ditch it and wasted time.

 

[jetinteriorguy]

I was merely commenting on whether a second strike on the same bullet would cause it to fire, not the tactical plus or minus of it being a good thing. Beside, even in a revolver the ability to just keep pulling the trigger until it stops going bang isn't a bad thing. Takes less time to go around and get a second strike than to open the cylinder and reload if one more immediate shot could save you.

 

[Glenn E. Meyer]

But if going around the circle to a bad round again doesn't fire it - then you wasted time. Better to attempt to fire the capacity of the gun and ditch the cylinder load - esp. if you are using speed loaders.

Tactical utility is really what is about. The argument for the DA semis is usually the heavier trigger pull to prevent NDs from folks who have poor trigger discipline.