Scout scope users--how do you like 'em?

[Dave R]

A question to those of you who have used scout-type scopes (long-eye relief scope mounted forward of the action.) How do you like the scout scope? Is it a gimmick? Or an improvement over traditional scope setups? Is it all Cooper says it is?

As I understant it, the benefits are:
-Quicker target acquisition (one plane--crosshairs--vs. two planes--rear site/front site alignment.)
-Better field of view (you use it with both eyes open.)
-No way the scope can whack your eye (short of a catastrophic stock failure.)

Downside is:
-Limit on how much magnification you can use.

The reason I ask--I'm thinking o getting a scout-type scope mount for my K-31. It'll never be used for serious target work. Maybe for hunting (which is where scout scope advantages lie.)

So whadday think of the scout scope, after some real-life use?

 

[2002gti]

i have a scout setup with a reddot on my ak and its very quick to gain a sight picture, quicker than any of my open sighted or scoped rifles. the red dot may have something to do with it too. i love the setup.

 

[smince]

I have a pseudo-scout built on a 1903 Springfield action(30.06). It has an original Burris Scout Scope mounted. I fell in love with the scout-type scope first time I used one. Don't be fooled by the low power. My rifle will shoot sub-1" groups@100. And I've shot coyotes@250-300 yds easily. The 2.75X scope is not the liability the magazine writers and advertisers would have you to believe. I h ave more use for a solid low power scope than a 3-10X variable with target knobs and BDC/Mil-dot reticle/parallax adjustment/etc. and anything else that might break. Those scopes have their place, but most people I know who hunt with variables, usually use a lower power most of the time anyway.

I haven't wanted a regular scope since I started using the scout type. However, they are not for everyone.

 

[wyrdone]

I have a scout mount on my MN 91/30. Works great with the 3-9x40 EER scope.

 

[C1PNR]

K31 Scout Mount

Dave R,

It's no gimmick, and gives you an alternative of a scope without permanent alteration of a nice old surplus rifle.

Have you decided what brand of mount you plan to use on the K31? I am looking forward to mounting a scout type on my K31 as well. Haven't decided which mount or which scope, but am looking into a Leupold, Burris, or Bushnell IER or EER scope.

Sounds like you might have the Burris in mind. I"ll be interested in what you find after trying the combination.

 

[No4Mk1]

I have this setup on my Savage scout and love it. Dropped my first deer with it and it lives up to the promise.

 

[Dave R]

C1PNR, I'll get one of Darrell's scout scope mounts for the K-31. I have heard good things about them, and the price is right. No permanent alteration to the rifle, quick install, quick remove. Replaces the rear sight.

I'll post a report when I get it.

Any other scout scope fans?

Edited to add a better link to a pic of a K-31 with scout scope mount.

 

[Hogleg]

I have a scout mount on my 45-70 guide gun, and I love it. I had a Simmons 4x handgun scope on it, but recoil busted it. All I can find is Leupold and Burris scout scopes in 2.5 and 2.75 power. Does anyone know of a 4x or 6x scout that can take recoil? The handgun scope had too much eye relief, and I would like a little more power than 2.75.

 

[FirstFreedom]

Well, I have a Burris 2.75 on a K31, with a Darrel's scout mount, and I'm not that impressed, but I think this is due more to the scope's quality than the setup. It's not all that quick, having a small exit pupil. If the objective was larger, around 40mm, then it would be much better for quick acquisition. Secondly, the reticle is too thin on this scope - it needs to be heavier - very hard to see in any kind of dim light. I also would prefer the scout scope to be variable, with a little more power, like a 1-4/1-5 or 2-6/2-7 if possible. It works ok, though. I've never hunted with it, however, so I can't comment on the potential utility of the setup for tracking moving game with one eye while sighting with the other eye, but it appears that this is a viable concept. It does allow loading with stripper clips however, but you have to mount it way forward. Yes, Schmidt Rubin mags can load with stripper clips. They're rare, but I found some. They're made of cardboard and steel, but they work.

 

[Northwest Cajun]

I have two Burris 2.75X scout scopes now and about to get another. The first one is on a Marlin Guide gun, The second is on a customized 1917 Enfield( Rem) in 338-06, I didn't want to mill off the fixed sights but wanted a scope and that was my only option. My next one will be for a "true" Jeff Cooper scout( 3kg& 1 meter long) in 7mm-08 built on a Rem Model 7 Youth rifle. With the two I have, I have no problem hitting a 10" plate off hand at 200 yds . I havent learned yet to keep both eyes open yet but I plan on learning w/ the scout I'll build.
The guide gun will clover leaf 405's at 100yds.The .338-06 has printed 1.3" groups at 200 yds, I'm thinking about entering the 338-06 in a BR hunter class match. I just hope they dont laugh me off the range w/ a 2.75X scope.

The mounts are on all my rifles are/will be XS(Ashley) and rings are Leupold QR weaver. That set up gives me 100% return to zero.That 200 yd plate at the range, I can ring it w/ the scope , then take it off and ring it agian w/ open sights, then put the scope back on and do it agian. I'll do that a couple of times a session. Havent been dissapointed yet.
I've hunted w/ the guide gun in the Olympic NF 2 years ago and knocked a 4x4 bull off it's feet at about 50 yds. It was around noon on opening morning but it looked more like midnight. My buddy had shot it already w/ a 300WM and big 4-12 scope in a clearcut which was useless for the finnishing shot that I took.

Cajun
Here is a pic from that day that was taken at noon.

 

[DPris]

I don't hunt anymore, and I don't like scopes in general because they clutter up the lines of the rifles I prefer, which are mostly for relatively short range "utility" uses.
That said, I own eight scopes. Two old ones that came on rifles I bought used & sit in a drawer in the basement, one inexpensive Bushnell variable on a Ruger 10/22 rifle, one Leupold fixed six power on a Winchester Model 70 in .300 WSM (for hunting & longer ranges, if I ever decide to hunt again), one four-power fixed on an AR15, one four-power fixed for an AR15 (sits in its box on the shelf) one Burris Scout 2.75 on a Savage .308 Scout Rifle, and one Burris Scout 2.75 on a Ruger Frontier .308 carbine.
The Scout scope principle was designed to be simple, fixed power (generally less inclined to break something internally), and low enough power to combine the capability of the single aiming point advantage with enough magnification to improve the sight picture to a useful degree over a wide range of distances and allow use with both eyes open. Much more magnification in a fixed power scope reduces the ability to shoot as effectively close up, while the 2.75 gives plenty of view out to 200 yards and beyond, if the conditions are good. Making a variable Scout scope would defeat part of the purpose behind it, which again is simplicity and consistency. But, people have different preferences, and a variable might be nice on occasion. I think you might run into problems in using both eyes on a higher powered Scout scope, though.
The Scout scope, for me, is a hand-carryin' gun. The conventional scope is either a truck or sling-carryin' gun. Scout scope is quicker for me, and the Burris gives me plenty of power for a bear at 30 yards or a deer at 200, if I need it, and I don't worry about what setting I left it on, or having to adjust for distance. Simple & quick, like iron sights. For situations where speed doesn't matter, most people can shoot better (via seeing better) at longer distances with a conventional scope, and one with more magnification.
Whether you want a Scout setup, or a conventional hunting setup, depends on how you intend to use the rifle. In high mountain country where you may be shooting from peak to peak or across canyons, a conventional setup may work better for you. In brush country where distances are closer and shots may need to be quicker, the Scout could work better.
I tested both the Burris and the Leupold a while back, the Leupold was slightly brighter, but I went with the Burris because it's shorter & lighter.
Good luck.
Denis


Smince, you cut me to the core!
Liability? Schmiability!

 

[smince]

Smince, you cut me to the core!

Liability? Schmiability!

Thanks! I must be doing my job, then.
(Just kidding)

Really, though you stated everything about the positives of a fixed power scout scope and the lack of need for a variable version that I was going to say.

 

[AK103K]

The onliest down side I've found to the scout or forward mounted scopes is when you have the light to your back, especially coming across low, about at your shoulders or so. You get reflections in the glass that can obliterate your cross hairs, making it hard, if not impossible to see them. Other than that, I like them a lot and have a Leupold on my Savage Scout and was planning on trying a Burris on my SOCOM 16 with the A.R.M.S. knock off rings. Just tonight I had the thought of a lighted "dot" reticule scope and wondered if it would be bright enough to be used as a dot type sight, or at the very least, take the scope into low light and darkness. Sort of a "best of both worlds" type set up, crosshairs and dot.

 

[gordo b.]

"The onliest down side I've found to the scout or forward mounted scopes is when you have the light to your back, especially coming across low, about at your shoulders or so. You get reflections in the glass that can obliterate your cross hairs, making it hard, if not impossible to see them. "
Add to that crappy low light performance.
Good to hit skeet with a rifle though !

 

[ktd]

hey AF103K, what rings (and height) do you use? I just got my Leu and am gonna stick it on my Savage. Do you use Butler scope caps?


I like the scout scope set up in general. For a handy rifle it works great.

k

 

[Dave R]

Cajun, nice buck! Great scout/guide gun story.

First Freedom and C1PNR, I'll be using an NCStar 2.75X30 scope. Its a cheapo chinese scope, but comes well-recommended at Darrel's site. And I didn't want to invest big $$ before I know how I like the whole scout concept. It has nice duplex reticle, lighted, so that should help with the glare thing. No idea on low-light performance, except it looks pretty good out the back door at night...

The mount and scope are mounted, I just need to get to the range this weekend to try it out.

Gordo, skeet with a rifle?? I guess that shows what the scout scope principle is all about, eh?

My little bro. wanted to try skeet with a .22 first time we took him out. We thought he hit none with the .22, till we went out to pick up the unbroken ones. We found .22 holes in 3 of them. I guess .22 doesn't break clays very well. We really don't know how many he might have hit and broke on the ground.

 

[Greg R]

I have used various Scout rifles over the years on the range, in the field, and at Gunsite. I like it, but it does have its limitations. I do not feel low magnification is one of them. Rather, I think the Scout scope is a poor choice in low light, where it is difficult to acquire a sight picture with the forward-mounted optic.

 

[AK103K]

ktd,
I have low Leupold QR lever rings on mine. They work well but the levers have sharp corners. If you use them, you may want to hit the corners with a file. I tried the scope caps but took them off after awhile. They were more of a pain and even though you could see through them, they weren't real clear and really cut down on what you did see through them. I had to cut the bottom of the back one due to the scope being to low.

 

[smince]

I'll be using an NCStar 2.75X30 scope. Its a cheapo chinese scope, but comes well-recommended at Darrel's site.

I got a Moisin Nagant M44 with synthetic stock at a real bargin. I added the B-square Scout-type mount on it and keeping with the bargain theme of the rifle, mounted an NCStar pistol scope. Lasted about 20 rounds before it came apart with the 7.62X54 recoil. I hope you have MUCH BETTER LUCK with yours.

My dealer exchanged it for a BSA. It is still ticking along fine.

 

[FirstFreedom]

Cajun, WHY was it dark at noon? Had Mt. St. Helen's just erupted?

smince, wow! A BSA has held up to 7.62x54? Tell us which one please - cat's eye?