School property and airports

Duxman

New member
Questions to all you legal eagles out there:

In the state of VA - it is illegal to CC on school property and on the non-secure parts of the airport:

When walking your dog outside in the sidewalk - is that considered part of the school property or not?

Also when picking up someone from the airport - is the road outside the airport where the passengers get out to go to cars - is that part of the non-secure area(s) of the airport? (NOT the baggage claim area mind you - outside the doors of the terminal is the area I refer to.
 

DouglasW

New member
Will be interested in seeing the learned responses to this one. I'm thankful that Colorado's permit only excludes in the secure area of the airport (beyond the metal detectors) and from the "grounds" of public elementary, middle, and high schools.

But I visit Virginia occasionally....

One state (Florida, perhaps), prohibits CCW anywhere on Airport property! Including parking lots, access roads, etc. Sure makes re-arming difficult after you get off the plane...not to mention the inconvenience when trying to pick up passengers.
 

Duxman

New member
Yeah right now - if I am flying out of airport or picking up someone from the airport - I go completely unarmed.

So if we can get some intelligent answers from a legal type - that would be awesome.
 

DouglasW

New member
Found this on VCDL's website:

VCDL said:
Places Off-Limits While Carrying
Air Carrier Airport Terminals (Ticketed Passengers Baggage Exemption)
ANY Courthouse
ANY Federal Property (Federal Offices/National Parks/Post Offices)
*** Controversial. Click For More Details ***
Detention Facilities (Adult & Juvenile)
Military Facilities
Place of Worship During a Service "Without Good and Sufficent Reason"
Places With On-Premises Alcohol - Owners/Employees/Open Carry Exempted
Private Property / Business When Prohibited by Owner or Posted
Public/Private/Parochial School Buses
Public/Private/Parochial School Functions
Public/Private/Parochial School Property
(Concealed Carry by Permit Holders INSIDE Vehicles is Exempted)
State Parks (CCW Ok. Open Carry Not Allowed)
Virginia Commonwealth University

"Airport Terminals" sounds like inside the building to me (i.e. you'd be good to go if you stay in your car at passenger pickup). You might contact them directly for clarification/further questions...
 

Duxman

New member
Thanks Douglas.

I guess the only clarification needed is:
Does school property extend to the sidewalk?
 

johnbt

New member
This is from 2004 and directly addresses Dulles and National. It mentions the state law, but I'd still call the airport or the police to be certain. They do some crazy things.

"Before yesterday's action, the authority barred anyone from carrying what it defined as dangerous weapons -- including firearms, knives with blades longer than four inches, bows and arrows and even sandbags -- from all airport property. That covered parking garages, access roads and several highways near Dulles, including parts of the Dulles Toll Road, Route 28 and the Dulles Greenway."
__________

washingtonpost.com
Weapons Rules Eased At Dulles and National

By Steven Ginsberg and Karin Brulliard
Washington Post Staff Writers
Thursday, October 7, 2004; Page B01


People soon will be able to carry guns and other dangerous weapons onto the grounds and parking lots of Reagan National and Dulles International airports, after officials yesterday eased what they said were overly restrictive rules.

Without debate, the board of the Metropolitan Washington Airports Authority unanimously agreed to permit passengers and other airport visitors to carry guns, knives and other weapons as long as they keep them out of terminals and other buildings that access airfields. Passengers who are taking guns with them on flights still will be allowed to carry them into the terminal but are supposed to make arrangements with airlines in advance, officials said.

The action comes after pressure from an increasingly high-profile Virginia gun rights group whose members have taken to wearing firearms on their hips in public places to make their case.

Before yesterday's action, the authority barred anyone from carrying what it defined as dangerous weapons -- including firearms, knives with blades longer than four inches, bows and arrows and even sandbags -- from all airport property. That covered parking garages, access roads and several highways near Dulles, including parts of the Dulles Toll Road, Route 28 and the Dulles Greenway.

Motorists with weapons in their cars could be arrested if they drove on those roads, even if they had no intention of going to the airport.

Airport officials said they made the changes, which will take effect Dec. 1, because the rules did not enhance security and because they unfairly affected gun owners who might unknowingly break the law. Officials also said they never enforced the gun rules on roadways because they didn't consider those drivers a threat.

"What we're attempting to do is to more clearly define the areas of concern for us," said James E. Bennett, president and chief executive of the airports authority, which manages operations at Dulles and National and whose members are appointed by the president, the District's mayor and the governors of Virginia and Maryland. "At the same time, we want to make sure our regulation does not inadvertently entrap people."

Officials said they were spurred to change their weapons regulation by complaints from gun rights supporters after enactment of a Virginia law that made it illegal to carry dangerous weapons in airport terminals.

The issue at the airports is the latest in a string of battles in the commonwealth over where guns ought to be allowed. Gun owners have created a small stir by openly carrying sidearms into restaurants to generate support, though opponents say the tactic scares customers. And 30 gun-toting residents walked into a Falls Church council meeting last week to protest a policy that asked city workers to call 911 if anyone carrying a gun came onto city property.

Virginia requires permits for people to carry concealed weapons, but openly displayed guns are allowed.

Gun rights groups said the rules at area airports are still too restrictive. Philip Van Cleave, president of the Virginia Citizens' Defense League, said Dulles and National airports should have to follow state law. He also said people should be able to carry their guns into the terminals.

"The point is, terrorists will not pay any attention to this," he said. "What it will do is stop the people who don't want to break the law."

Jim Sollo, president of Virginians Against Handgun Violence, said the changes don't make any sense. "We think just the whole idea of guns around terminals is not a good idea," he said. "We think it puts additional pressure and stress on police who will probably stop and question a person they see openly carrying a weapon, particularly around an airport."

From January to September, authority police arrested 50 people on charges of weapons violations in airport terminals; eight were charged with possession of dangerous weapons on authority roadways or in garages, said authority spokeswoman Tara Hamilton.

A spokeswoman for the Transportation Security Administration declined to comment on whether the change at Dulles and National would threaten passenger safety, saying that the agency's main area of concern is the screening area and beyond.

Airport authority officials said they do not have to abide by Virginia law because of a long-standing compact between Virginia and the District, which left the authority with the right to adopt its own regulations that have the force of law.

Airport security experts said the new law doesn't worry them. Douglas R. Baird, an aviation security consultant, said, "It doesn't raise any concerns with me because if you have the authority of the state to be armed, I don't see why you can't be armed at an airport."




© 2004 The Washington Post Company
 

johnbt

New member
In my area - Richmond City - the sidewalk belongs to the city. In some areas I've been to, usually suburban, the sidewalks are built on school property.
 

BMARM4

New member
Can You Or Can't You?

After I got my CC, it seems there are more places I can't carry then places I can. Which begs the question, why have it, though I do and will.

I like to keep a loaded (magazine, not chambered) gun in my vehicle. But sometimes I have to give my kids a ride to school on my way to work. So on those days, am I just unarmed?

I also go through a military base driving down to the coast to visit my parents. The main highway I use goes right through the base. Do I have to detour or go unarmed?

I went on line to try and read the Federal laws regarding firearms and these places. What a bunch of doubletalk. But what I got out of it, at least to me, was that you can go on these properties (school or base) with a weapon so long as it is unloaded and secured (locked) in the vehicle.

I sent an e-mail to the NRA, which I'm a member of, but never got a response. It sure would be nice to know one way or the other.
 
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