School me on M1 Carbines

[Wayward_Son]

I have a coworker who approached me about M1 Carbines. I don't know much about them, but told him I'd do some research. He was interested in finding out which manufacturers made the "best" M1 Carbine.

The research I've done over the last couple hours indicates a few things.

There were many manufacturers of the USGI Carbines, most of which were made by Inland an Winchester. Some people think that this statistic makes these two brands the "best", but others feel that other manufacturers like the Saginaw or Rock-Ola models are "better" and more collectible due to their rarity or emotional significance to the purchaser.

All USGI Carbines were made to the same specs, with the same criteria in mind: Take nine different carbines from nine different manufacturers, disassemble them and mix the parts all together, and then rebuild nine different carbines from the piles of parts. Ideally, each new rebuild should be just as accurate and reliable as the nine models were before they were disassembled.

Commercial-made versions of the M1 Carbine are considered to be not nearly as desirable or even as well-built as the USGI versions.

What have I learned is true, and what is false? Are there any models of the USGI or Commercially-made Carbines that are "better" as far as quality, craftsmanship and reliability are concerned, or are they all basically the same? Are the USGI versions really any better than the Commercial versions?

Bottom line, what should my friend be looking for when trying to make an informed purchase of a quality M1 Carbine that will offer reliability, accuracy and craftsmanship?

 

[bcarver]

winchesters

winchesters sell for more.
Check out CMP page.
They got a carbine forum.
they have had this discussion.
Universal is non GI and considered they cheapest.
IBM , Underwood, US postal meter, so many..

 

[JWT]

I don't own a USGI Carbine and would agree they're more desireable to many shooters than a comercial 'copy'.

I do own an Auto Ordanance M1-carbine and have been very satisfied with the overall quality and performance of the little gun since I bought it in January. I've had a few malfunctions with MagTech ammo but it's functioned fine with all other ammo I've tried. It's accurate and best described as 'fun' to shoot. No, it's not a USGI gun but suits my use fine.

 

[Citizen Carrier]

Bottom line, what should my friend be looking for when trying to make an informed purchase of a quality M1 Carbine that will offer reliability, accuracy and craftsmanship?

Just find the best condition USGI manufacture M1 for the best price, and he'll do fine.

In order of importance, I would go condition of barrel, condition of metal, then condition of wood.

I spent an hour at CMP North using one of their muzzle erosion gauges finding the best barrel I could. Ended up with a "O" gauging Underwood for under $600.

I'm a shooter, not somebody who obsesses over proof marks or inspector's cartouches. I wanted the best barrel I could get for the carbine match at Perry this year.

The metal finish and walnut stock were in good shape, but I went ahead and bought a new stock and handguard. I like old guns that look like they were manufactured last week.

The handguard is what they call a "new old stock" birch M2 unit from Gary's Guns for $25. The stock is a new birch stock from Fulton Armory for $30 that is listed as "may require some finishing". It is an outstanding piece of wood. I started with one coat of linseed and I'm on my second coat of tung oil.

 

[Tidewater_Kid]

I would say that the CMP is your best bet. Hit the forums for info and then buy from the CMP. Here's mine I purchased last year. It's a 1943 Inland with late features.

TK

 

[Ruger4570]

Like just about everything in life, no one can guarantee accuracy between two different guns. They may be similar in accuracy or not even close. Most all of the CMP carbines have been rebuilt using "parts". That should be no big deal as the original carbines were built from "parts" No one gun was made from start to finish as a single entity.
The other thing is these are "battle" guns, not precission target rifles.
I have one I bought in the mid 70's that were available only to LEO's ( at the time, I was). It is a "lend Lease" gun, stamped that way, but all serial #'s match so I doubt is was "refurbished" I got it in virtually "new" condition, just old.
One of the funny things about this gun is that it will put the first 2 rounds into an inch or less at 100 yards, course as the barrel heats up the groups get much larger.

 

[vanfunk]

all serial #'s match so I doubt is was "refurbished" I got it in virtually "new" condition, just old.

Your carbine sounds interesting - what country was it lent to? Carbines that remained in US control do not have serialized parts (other than the receiver), so yours sounds very unusual.

Carbines are light, very handy, shoot well enough at 100 yards to be rewarding, and absolutely exude history. An Inland represents the bulk of those made and, all else being equal, will be the least expensive, so they are a good "first".

Get one, and have fun!

vanfunk

 

[amd6547]

The six-digit Inland I got from CMP North will put 15 rounds into a group about the size of an orange at 100yds, using just about any ammo I have tried.
It is claimed that the bayonet mount front band provides better accuracy than the non-bayonet early band.
My Inland was rebuilt post war with a new Underwood barrel. Underwood used button rifling on their barrels, and they are also said to be very accurate.

 

[lmccrock]

I have a Universal, purchased new about 30 years ago, and I shot it lots for several years, although not so much lately. Mine is great, but YMMV. Many parts are unique to Universal so it is an orphan. I also have a re-import Saginaw. which shoots well, but the sights cannot be adjusted to get them on at 100 yds. One day that will bother me enough I will work on it.

all serial #'s match

Do you mean that the drawing numbers are consistent with a particular timeframe, or that the receiver serial # is etched on parts other than the receiver? If the serial # is on other parts, that was done during a rebuild to more easily re-match the parts after refinishing.

Lee

 

[Wayward_Son]

Thanks for the responses so far. I talked to my coworker today and got some more info on the gun in question. As it turns out he knows someone who is selling one, and they want $700 for it, but he doesn't want to pay that much.

This is a commercial version of the carbine manufactured by a company called either IAI or IMI, I forget which one. Israeli something Industries. This is supposed to be some kind of commemorative edition with a big silverish emblem placed into the wood on the stock. Sound familiar to anybody? The barrel, receiver and stock are supposedly all in good shape.

Edit: Found it.

http://www.m1carbinesinc.com/carbine_iai.html

Can anyone tell me about that Commemorative version located near the bottom of that page? Any rough ideas of value?

 

[Tom2]

That is too much as it is more than it sold for new. I think you can get a commercial carbine for less than 700? Or you could recently, I think. I would not offer more than 450 myself. That is me. Commercial guns like that have no real collectors potential, they are purely shooters. Assuming they work well, some commercial guns are junk, some are better but might have issues. The 700$+ range is for a GI carbine which has some degree of collectors interest. More or les depending on many factors. As for best maker, well Inland are not the rarest or more valuable, but they made by far the most carbines and had it down pat as far as quality and such. Others cost more just due to lower production, or name recognition. Winchesters are not "best" but certainly cost more.

 

[bdturner]

I like .30 Carbines and have a Postal Meter carbine that is a non import. My dad bought it in 1960 at a pawn shop for $20. I have honestly never had a bad one and have owned every military contract carbine and most every commercial carbine made. They are fetching some high prices these days I traded a 43 Inland last year in good condition for a NIB Ruger Ranch rifle in 6.8 spc.

 

[Tidewater_Kid]

An Inland Service Grade from the CMP is listed at $495. A much better value in my opinion.

TK

 

[Wayward_Son]

Thanks for the replies. That gives me enough to give back to my coworker, although further comments wont be disregarded. Thanks again.

 

[Bart Noir]

Last weekend I walked out of the gunshop with a new Kaaaaahr-Bine

It is the Kahr, same as the AutoOrdnance mentioned above. All brand new, with a company to stand behind it if there are problems. For $665 before the tax was added.

It is just the same as the first-issue version except that it has the mag release button designed for the 30-round magazines. Fine by me.

Bart Noir
Who wonders if the L-sight will be even close at 100 yards.

 

[Orlando]

IAI carbines and Kahr are both hit and miss. Some function some dont, they both lose value as soon as you walk out the door with tem.
A USGI Carbine will only increase in value . Kinda no brainer eh?

 

[amd6547]

A USGI carbine doesn't need a "company to stand behind it", though the CMP has a reputation for bending over backwards to ensure satisfied customers.