SBR questions

[ace4059]

These questions are specific for an ar15
I am looking at buying 2 complete lowers. I want one lower to be a Pistol only. The other Lower, I want it to be a SBR. I am not sure on the brand just yet. I am looking at BCM, but I see RRA has a Pistol only lower. I do not want this thread to be about brands.
I have a few questions that are unanswered. I found most of my answers through searching on the internet. I found answers for either a ar15 SBR, or ar15 pistol, but I didnt find a thread or article of people switching the upper back and forth.

Since one lower will be a pistol and the other a SBR, it is my understanding I could have only one upper and switch it back and forth. Is that correct?

Next If the upper is on the SBR, then could I have a vertical grip on it, and just remove the vertical grip before I switched the upper on the pistol lower? Would this still be legal, or would that make the upper "rifle only" then it goes back to being a pistol? I read a law that basically says you can not have a pistol, then make it a rifle, then switch it back to a pistol. So would that classify my pistol as an AOW, if I put a vertical grip on it for the SBR, but I removed it for the pistol?

I did find that it is legal to have several uppers (say maybe a 10.5", 11.5", and a 14") and switch them out without updating the paperwork since it is not a "permanent" change. And I did find out it is legal to have a 16"+ barrel on a pistol lower.

But if I bought a 16"+ barrel upper later on, could I put it on the SBR to shoot it? I know it would still be registered as a SBR, but can you legally put a full length upper on a SBR?

I know these questions can be confusing.
Thanks for any input

 

[snipecatcher]

I sent a similar letter to the ATF a few months back, still waiting on a reply. Until then, from what I understand, it's probably not a good idea to have more than 2 short uppers when you only have 2 lowers they could be used on. The law is intentionally pretty vague, and if they want to bust you for it they will.

 

[ace4059]

But if you only have two lowers (just a pistol and sbr lower, no regular lower) and they are legally able to except short uppers, then what is the problems with owning, say maybe 4 short uppers?

 

[Ridge_Runner_5]

OP, you are pretty much correct. You can have a pistol lower, and a registered SBR lower. Swap the upper back and forth, and just remove the VFG when using on the pistol lower. I hear tale that the ATF says the Magpul AFG can be used on a pistol, so that could be an option for you as well.

I do not think you can have a 16" barrel on a pistol lower, because then it is an SBR for not being at least 26"...but I might be wrong on that.

You can have as many uppers for your SBR as you desire. No change to it based on how long or short it is.

But you have to remember if you take the SBR lower out of state, the ATF must be notified in advance, and it has to be legal in your destination state.

 

[ace4059]

Ridge Runner,
This will not be taken out of state.

here is where it says it is OK to swap out different uppers on a SBR
http://www.m4carbine.net/archive/index.php/t-7439.html

here is where it says it is OK that you do not have to notify the ATF to swap out the length
http://www.arizonashooting.com/v3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=124454

and I did read that it doesn't matter the length on the barrel on a pistol.
Ill post a link when I re find it.
Edit: I wish I could find the thread on the barrel length for a pistol. It basically said a pistol cannot have a but stock on it since it is meant to be fired from the hands, and NOT from the shoulder. It said the barrel can be as long as you want.

I did find a thread where some people were arguing about a pistol must be overall under a certain length, but no one knew 100%.

read post #12 about the Barrel length for a pistol
http://www.akfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13724

 

[madcratebuilder]

I do not think you can have a 16" barrel on a pistol lower, because then it is an SBR for not being at least 26"...but I might be wrong on that.

No barrel length restrictions that I know of for the "pistol" You can not have a butt stock or forward grip on a pistol.

To use a forward grip on a pistol it becomes a AOW.

 

[ace4059]

The only thing I can not find is; Is there a maximum length barrel that can be placed on a SBR?

I just want to make sure if I ever use a 16"+ barrel on it, I am not breaking any laws.

 

[MisterPX]

You can use whatever length barrel on the SBR. You only have to notify the ATF about configuration change is the change is permanent.

Just thwrowing this out there, but why a SBR and a pistol? Your SBR will do all the pistol does, and more. You may never shoot teh pistol lower at all.

 

[ace4059]

MisterPX,
The reason for both is due to the fact the laws are different. There are a few good reasons. A Pistol you can taken across state lines (if it is legal in the other state), while the SBR is more of a hassle with the notification to the ATF.
You could carry the pistol in your car or in a brief case legally. I think it would be illegal if your CCW is a SBR.

For me it really would not make a difference if I just had the SBR. These will only be used for the range.

 

[ace4059]

I would like to know if once a lower is registered as a SBR, can you change the caliber?

These two threads say you can. but I have a few more questions.

http://www.m4carbine.net/archive/index.php/t-15390.html

http://www.warriortalk.com/archive/index.php/t-76833.html

I may want to later go with a 9mm upper, or 6.5 or 6.8. So I will register the lower as a 5.56 and then do I just inform the ATF later when I purchase the 9mm or 6.5 (or different length upper) etc... When I inform them, do I have to wait for an approval? Or do I just write them a "courtesy" letter then go ahead with the change before they send the approval back?

Basically once you have your lower registered as a SBR, do they have to approve any changes (barrel length of caliber change) because those are just considered temporary.

 

[Ridge_Runner_5]

Yep, you can change caliber, again, as long as it's not a permanent change.

 

[ace4059]

A local Class III is looking at ordering the BCM complete lower, or LMT complete lower for me.
But Another shop does have the CMMG here and the Daniel Defense LPK to go with it. It is very nice.

I dont know If I should buy the one of the other two since I haven't even seen them. I know the CMMG looks and is finished very well and is quality.

Here is the catch. The new and only local class III FFL says they talked to the ATF agent, and I have to buy a Factory SBR that is register from the factory and it MUST say MULTI cal on the side.
They said I CAN NOT buy a regular lower and register it myself. I asked why not, and they said it has to be a "special" one from the factory preregistered. And they said the "preregistered" ones are a lot higher in price, and that the regular $330 Bravo or LMT is for the "Non" SBR uppers.
Is this correct?
Or can I buy ANY lower AR-15 and register it as a SBR.



ANY input?

 

[Ridge_Runner_5]

They are full of crap. They are looking to make a buck off you.

You can buy any brand lower you want (and btw, ATF does not like "MULTI CAL" listed lowers) and you can register it with the ATF directly for $200. You can register it to yourself by getting your local sheriff to sign off on the paperwork, or you can create a trust or LLC to register it to, which allows you to name someone to receive the firearm, should you die.

This guy registered his DPMS lower (aod886 on AR15.com):