Saiga .308 vs Cetme Questions

[OlympicArmsFan]

Hi everyone Im looking to get some help with my next gun buy. Im looking at the Saiga .308 or the Cetme .308. I also posted these questions over at the Saiga board. I like to get as many opions on this as I can.

I would like to know what one is better in accuracy?

Also what barrel length is better for the Saiga .308?

Im on the fence to what one to buy and the Cetme is one that Im leaning towards more so due to prices of the mags.

Is there a lot of options out there for the Saiga?

How about scope mounts?

Does the Saiga not mind brass ammo?

Tell me why I should chose the Saiga over the Cetme. I would really like to have a FN FAL or M14 but I just can not afford one. I think these two are my best bang for the buck. Thanks everyone for your help and all the info you can give me.

 

[smax]

I think I'd trust Saiga for build quality over Century Arms guns, but I'm really not sure about accuracy.

Personally, I'd get a Saiga in something like 7.62x39 for cheap fun (you can get them for $300 nowadays-- cheaper and higher quality and new AKs) and save my money for something more accurate in .308 like a PTR91/FAL/AR-10.

 

[DnPRK]

With Century products, you take a huge gamble. They either work great, or they are an unreliable lemon. If you are buying from a store, see if they will let you test fire the CETME and bring it back if it doesn't cycle properly.

The Saiga will run and run and run. It is built in the same factory by the same people who have built AK-47s since 1947. My Saiga 308 has a 21" barrel. You can get an extra low Weaver style quick detach scope mount.

 

[OlympicArmsFan]

I have a Century build AK and it works like a champ eats anything and everything. So I want to go to a .308 now in something that is semi.

Im on a big time budget and that looks to never end. The gun shop in town said they would like at both for me but suggested the Saiga over the Cetme.

I was told you could mod M14 and G3 mags to work in the saiga is that true?

 

[allons]

I've had my Century CETME probably 15 yrs. with no complaints. It has the cast receiver, very accurate with the Trilux scope and goes "bang" when you pull the trigger.

Got my Saiga .308, 16" bbl (IZHMASH) around 8 yrs ago. Great rifle, one of the most accurate out of the box, with iron sights that I own. VERY easy to clean compared to a CETME.

Scope mts run about the same $ for either one. If I had too, I'd give the accuracy edge to the Saiga, but not by much. - For reliability the Saiga wins walking away! If you are lucky enough to get a "good one" from Century, the CETME is still the H&K design. Personally, I don't like the delayed blow-back, but thats just my opinion. Many people just love it!

It would be a real bear to modify .308 mags for the Saiga, could be done but tough. You can modify the stocks pretty easy, just make sure you follow the BATF rules. My Saiga loves brass cased ammo, steel cased too.

If I could only keep one of the two, the Saiga stays! Not to mess with you but one of my favorites is the RomakIII. Not much more $ than a Saiga and a heck of a toy! Major bang for the buck! Good Luck!

 

[UtahHunting]

I was told you could mod M14 and G3 mags to work in the saiga is that true?

It could be done but is not easy and reliability will be iffy. I had the Saiga .308 and found it was best just to pony up the money for the Saiga mags by Surefire if you want extras. The gun itself is great. Never misses a beat.

 

[billfrombyron]

These are my experiences with the CETME rifle. Hope this helps your decision.

I had a CETME a while back and while yes HK did base their design on this rifle, it is not a low buck HK. (It is in fact not the other way around)

Mine was a horrible shooter, and unreliable as all get out until I figured out that it was shooting about 1/8" out of battery due to gobs of nasty burned cosmoline that surrounded the chamber.

I thought it was supposed to look like that the first time I looked into the receiver. Then I saw the light when I noticed the bolt going into battery with the pull of the trigger. Then after hitting with my trusty surefire I saw the problem. That's when my caveman tools came out consisting of:

My personal favorite 7.62mm chamber brush
6 pack of rolling rock
PD680 stoddard solvent
steel cleaning rod
power drill

After that it was a heck of a runner.

Also found out the first time I had it out at the range that the FA trigger group was:

A installed
B fully operational
C will get lots of dirty looks and a range safety at a dead sprint.

There was no semi, and this was cleaned by me and the range owner, and fresh out of the box purchased as same range so he fixed it free and on the spot. It fired the first mag in a FA like manor it also jammed . After that it was properly modded to Semi Only.

With the steel mags the fit was god awful at best and you had to slip a wedge in between the mag and mag well for proper rattle free fit. With actual German aluminum mags it fit and functioned beautifully.

The steel mags did function fairly well with either the front of the mag being used in place of a typical hand on fore-grip stance or with a wedge shoved in between the mag and mag well(or paper towel roll once)(finally settled on Aluminum tape, several wraps. NOT duct tape or 100 mph tape, but solid aluminum stuff.)

It was accurate after I got all the problems ironed out, and would consistently group 1.5-3.0" at 100 depending upon me and what surplus garbage I was shooting at the time. It would eject cases about 20-30 feet to my right and hit people on the pistol range from time to time with the steel cases. You also didn't want to reload the brass after firing as it had flute marks on it, and would deform at the neck a bit. Surplus is the name of the game for this rifle.

I had the sheet metal receiver, not the cast receiver. And yes it was the oh so loving craftsman at Century arms that built it.

I had better results with TW-25B as lube rather than conventional gun oil for some reason.

Oh and do your self a favor and order the wood stocks as the century stocks are cheap plastic that will crack and shatter. The wood ones are nice with some sanding and linseed oil.

Hope this helps. Truth be told I regret selling it now as I miss the hard work that I put into it.(I did other stuff to it too). It was a fun journey while it lasted and now Im going to get another one when I get back stateside, god help me its also gonna be a century arms too.....

-Bill

 

[OlympicArmsFan]

Thanks Bill for the info and that is a great story behind your Cetme. I found one localy that a guy has for sell that has problems. I think it jams Im going to get more info and take a look at it.

I hear to only shoot steel casing through it as like you said with brass it leaves a mark and sometimes can jam a case in there.

I have time as Im saving up some money to buy either a Cetme or a Saiga. The only thing I dont like about the Saiga is the price of the mags. I do like I can shoot brass or steel in it.

The only thing making me lean to the Cetme is the mag price but then I have to factor in all the problems I may have to fix.

I also have to factor in having to learn a new weapon system as I have an AK and know it well.

Keep the info coming.

 

[billfrombyron]

You will pick up the CETME fairly quickly truth be told. Just make sure to examine it thoroughly with a strong white light.

The German Aluminum mags for mine and my friends were the best for function.

Make sure the bolt goes forward by its self, and not with the hammer.

Clean the hell out of the bolt roller area, charging handle area, chamber, and chamber wall of the fwd part of the receiver area and barrel extension that protrudes into the receiver.

Also read up more here..

http://forums.gunboards.com/forumdisplay.php?39-CETME-And-FR8&

http://www.surplusrifle.com/cetme/index.asp

All the info you really want to know is here.

I had a saiga, and I got board with it. Got the CETME for the cure and it was. Go into it from the "This will be a fun project" mentality and you will enjoy it. Go into it with the "Hey bubba I just got me a HK for dirt cheap" mentality and you will hate it.

-Bill

 

[Csspecs]

Figured I'd toss this into the mix.

I make steel mags for the saiga .308 you can read about it over on the saiga 12 forums in the .308 section. (same user name)

We just put up a site for them www.csspecs.com our new batch has a few improvements they are supposed to be back from the finishers Monday.

Also have a kit in the works that coverts the 8 round mag to a 10 and will gain you two US made parts if your concerned about 922R parts count.

I've played with all the sizes a lot, I really like the 10 round, its about the same size as the factory 8 so it does not get in the way.

 

[T. O'Heir]

"...have a Century build AK and it works like a champ..." Century's QC is completely unreliable.
A real Cetme is a decent rifle. Century ruined the rifle's reputation completely.

 

[amd6547]

My Century CETME with stamped reciever has worked perfectly. I just can't afford to shoot it anymore since the cheap 7.62 NATO went away. I will probably sell it.

 

[OlympicArmsFan]

I want to add in the mix now of a gun I just found localy at a shop and the owner is a friend and I know the gun works 100% and its an L1A1 at a really really good price. This gun has the thumb hole stock that I can change out if I dont like.