Safeties?

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scorpion_tyr

New member
Several friends of mine have never owned firearms or been around them, but because of increasing crime rates where I live a few of them have purchased or thought about purchasing one for home and/or self defense. Many of them have opted for an automatic handgun. The one common thing they looked for were external safeties. When I asked them why they wanted a safety on their home defense handgun they responded that they have children in the home or because they are afraid of accidentally discharging the firearm. One even admitted that the weapon would be left out in plain sight in his unlocked bedroom, in easy access of his children, but he felt it was okay because he always left the safety on. I just want to know where these people are learning about firearms? And when did safety features of handguns start replacing common sense and safety protocol? Most of my friends and coworkers do not know that I am a "firearms enthusiast". I may change that because I wish more would have asked me for advise before making irresponsible decisions. Such as another who thought he could engage the safety and play Billy the Kid by twirling the handgun around his finger, he to could have ended up just like his "hero"; dead at 21. Here's what I've been telling them concerning safeties and because I don't even pretend to know everything I'm completely open for feedback. I just wanted to post it on here to make sure I'm not misinforming them.

The safety does not make the firearm "safe". Only following safety guidlines can attempt to do that, and even then no firearm is "safe". The only purpose of the safety is to prevent the weapon from discharging if it is dropped or if the trigger gets snagged or accidentally pulled by something. Being alert and careful ,as one should, be can prevent this.

A safety will never stop the curiosity of a child. If they are phisically able to pull the trigger, the safety will offer no resistance what so ever. It would take even a small child only a matter of seconds to disengage the trigger even if they don't know what they're doing.

Safeties, like all things, can fail. I've seen it happen before just by jerking on the trigger enough times, which is something a child can easily do while playing with the firearm.

If you choose a firearm with a safety, make sure you practice disengaging it when you're running drills at the range. An external safety is a heck of a thing to forget when you're in the heat of the moment with fear and adrenaline pumping through your veins. When your life is on the line, wondering why your gun is not firing is last thing you want.

Safeties do have a purpose, I know a Law Enforcement Officer who owes his life to the safety on his Beretta because the BG who managed to get it from him didn't know how to disengage it and gave the officer enough time to disarm him and give him some well deserved "stick time". I'm not bashing safeties, I'm just in shock that people are depending on the safety as their only means of accident prevention. Prehaps it's the name. The word "safety" when dealing with fireamrs can be a little misleading. Is there anyone else who feels like me and prefers to refer to safeties as "firing pin disengage switches" or "experienced shooter switches"?

Oh and the two "uninformed" individuals mentioned above have since been lectured heavily by myself and another for their wrong doings. :D
 
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TheTinMan

New member
You make a good point about "safeties" being a potentially misleading name.

It scares the heck out of me when I hear/read about people who leave guns lying around where anyone else can get access to them. IMHO it is our responsibility as gun owners to either (a) have control over the weapon, or (b) have the weapon physically locked up so that no one else can access it. No exceptions.

At the same time, it took me a while to get used to the idea of carrying a Glock with a round in the chamber. Decades of "the last thing you do before firing is release the safety" were hard to get over. I still prefer a manual safety, but a S&W 642 is just such a handy tool...

Chip
 
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bigghoss

New member
a manual safety is no substitute for proper handling and storage. it's people like that that give people like Nancy Pelosi a reason to get up in the morning.:mad:
 
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n.turner88

New member
I agree with thetinman 100%, and plus it dosent take a genius to know how to take off a safety, and i mean carrying it, or leaving it in storage.
 
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Homerboy

Moderator
All of my semi auto's have safeties, and I consider them a must have on a semi auto handun. I have owned two Glocks, a S&W 5946, and a SIG 226. I prefer a safety, period. I do not leave the gun around loaded and figure the safety will defeat a child picking it up. FLicking a safety is a pretty intuitive thing to do. My Beretta 92, which resides in a gunvault next to my bed, has a full mag in the gun, safety on, no round chambered. If my son ever got into the safe, he would have to chamber the round and flick off the safety. You are undoubtably about to hear the "do you need a safety on a revolver" and "the only safety I need is between my ears" comments. If that's your belief, it's a free country, but I would bet money that more lives have been saved (due to gun grabs where the bad guy wasn't able to figure out the safety was on in time, or by preventing a ND) then those lost by forgetting to disengage the safety in times of crisis. If you train yourself to draw and flick the safety off, it will be off when you pull the trigger. Do you make a conscious choice to step on your brake before shifting from park into drive? I am a retired cop and very familiar with guns, and I still admit to be human and have the potential to make a mistake. Safeties lessen that chance a bit.

I'll REALLY stir it up and say I like magazine safeties, too!
 
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Keltyke

Moderator
"the only safety I need is between my ears"
Click to expand...

Two of the semis I carry have safeties, one doesn't. When a manual safety is available, I use it. I ALWAYS use the one between my ears. It's not the only one I need, but sometimes it's the only one I have.
 
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Creature

Moderator
It scares the heck out of me when I hear/read about people who leave guns lying around where anyone else can get access to them. IMHO it is our responsibility as gun owners to either (a) have control over the weapon, or (b) have the weapon physically locked up so that no one else can access it. No exceptions.
Click to expand...

Just wondering...does that mean locking them up even when they are left "lying around" in the home with no children around?
 
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KyJim

New member
My Beretta 92, which resides in a gunvault next to my bed, has a full mag in the gun, safety on, no round chambered. If my son ever got into the safe, he would have to chamber the round and flick off the safety.
Click to expand...
When my children were young, I had a Taurus PT99 (Beretta clone) for my home defense handgun that I kept in the same condition for the same reasons. While I was sure my handgun was inaccessible to small children, I felt more comfortable with layered protection what with Murphy's Law and all that.
 
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sw99guy

New member
you should never keep a firearm in plain sight of a young child, it's just wrong. also for carrying as long as the pistol is in a good holster you have no worries.
 
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scorpion_tyr

New member
I didn't put this in my original post, but just to reassure that I'm not "anti-safety switch" I own three firearms with external safeties and when I carry them the safety is always on.
 
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armsmaster270

New member
The only time I use a saftey is on a cocked & locked 1911 all my other autos are double action and the safety is redundant as if it isn't in my safe it's on my hip In many jurisdictions if you leave a weapon out where a child can access it you can be arrested.
 
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vranasaurus

New member
I prefer guns with an external safety it is just my own personal preference. I would certainly consider a gun without one but all else being equal I will take the gun with the external safety.

That being said safeties give the uninformed a false sense of security. A safety on a gun doesn't allow you to adopt unsafe handlng or storage practices. Leaving a gun where an unsupervised child has access to it is very reckless safety or no safety.
 
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DMCA

New member
As regards children and guns, whether loaded, unloaded, safety, no safety, autoloader, revolver, none should be left within their reach / access unless they have demonstrated the maturity to absorb proper training in safe handling.

As for buying an autoloader with or without an external safety, I think it's a matter of preference. My first autoloader was a 1911 and everything after that, until this year, was a Sig product, in DA with a decocker. I became wed to that concept. This year, I bought a Glock 21SF, with the idea that I'd shoot it for a little while then give it as a gift to my LEO nephew. I liked it so much, thus far I've kept it. That was followed by 2 more Glocks, a G17 and a G23. Contrary to a number of opinions, I actually like the standard Glock trigger and if I did CCW, I think it would be either the G17 or the G23 (G21 is a tad heavy). The last pistol I bought was a CZ 75B in 9mm. I was dead set on getting the decocker version but they were sold out so I decided to satisfy my need for instant gratification by getting the model with a manual safety. I'm glad that I did. That gun can be safely decocked, manually, putting the trigger at the same rest spot as the decocker version. So, I could carry it DA/SA like with the decocker version, or cocked and locked. I don't judge the time it takes to "sweep" the safety off as any detriment and that gun, at least for me, is far more accurate with an SA first shot than DA.

Excuse the long winded commentary but firearm safety is most dependent upon the user. Any time I show a firearm to someone, I make sure it is empty, even if I checked 10 seconds prior. Then I show the person I am going to hand it to how to do the same and insist that they do it, when I give it to them.

"Fire and forget" is a nice concept but the day we forget is the day the gun fires at us. Firearm safety is the product of being endlessly anal in our procedures.
 
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Gunsmom

New member
Scorpion, you did well. A safety is a mechanical device, and like any other mechanical device, is prone to fail on occasion. It's not a trigger lock.

I'd suggest to these guys that they, and their significant others and any children in the households who are old enough, attend a NRA Basic Pistol course. I think they'd find the course very helpful and informative, and safe handling is strongly emphasized.
 
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oneounceload

Moderator
I'm the opposite - I prefer NO external safeties on any gun that needs to be deployed in a millisecond's notice - I like my Glocks, my P7, and others and they work just fine without an external safety.

"Safety", IMO, is a misnomer
 
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CDH

New member
There are now several pistols that have been to be very safe without having an external safety, the XD series being noteable among them.

A safety is no protection from a kid who picks up a gun, and it's certainly no protection from an idiot who would leave a pistol where a child could easily get to it.

On the other hand, safeties can be dangerous in a self defense situation if an untrained person must use the pistol, like, right NOW!.

My wife knows about pistols and how to handle them safely, but she is not "trained" with weapons like Sarah Connor. ;)

I have no kids around the house at all anymore, so all my wife needs to know about any of the pistols I have stashed around the house is that if she needs one really quickly when I'm not there, all she needs to do is pull the trigger.

Even the pistols that have safeties are kept chamber loaded and with the safety off and hammer down (double action).
At her disposal are typically a; S&W 642, PPK, XD9SC and Rohrbaugh 9mm plus a couple others in rotation. But the only thing you have to do to fire any of them in my house is to pull the trigger. (Note that three of the four I mention have no safety at all).

In a real self defense emergency, that's the "safe" way to keep your pistols.
 
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UncleJed

New member
I saw a neat gun safe for $299 that pops open immediately with the swipe of a fingerprint. That would be great if you had kids in the house.
 
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