Safest way to buy out of state from Armslist

[deerslayer303]

Hey guys, what is the safest way to buy from a website with an out of state private party. Of course I would prefer dealing locally, but the item in question is something that I can't find locally. The seller says he will ship to my FFL no problem, and payment can be made by PayPal as a gift or money order?

 

[Snyper]

There is no "safe" way to buy from strangers on the internet
You have to take your chances and hope they are honest

Reality is no matter what precautions one takes, if the seller is dishonest, you will pay the price

 

[Tom Servo]

payment can be made by PayPal as a gift

I've heard of this before, and I'll warn you against it. If something goes wrong and PayPal finds out a gun was involved, you'll lose any protection you would otherwise get from using their service.

 

[mavracer]

Make reasonably sure you're dealing with a real person, check the address out on the net and use a USPS money order. Then at least there's the threat of mail fraud.

 

[Skans]

For guns $5,000 and under

1. Make sure and talk to seller on the phone.
2. Make them send you a photo of the gun you are buying with YOUR email address written on a piece of paper and placed on top of the gun. This is very difficult to fake if they don't at least have the gun they claim to be selling. Many scammers don't have the gun and don't even have access to guns.
3. Watch out for poor grammar. People who sell guns don't talk/write like they came from West Africa or Pakistan.
4. Beware of sellers who want funds fed-xed to them and ask you for a tracking number - just don't ever do this, it's a scam.
5. Pay by credit card; or pay by personal check. At least with a personal check, you will have evidence of where the check was negotiated.

For truly high dollar guns:
1. Use an attorney to escrow funds in the town where the gun is being shipped from.
2. Go meet seller at his favorite FFL and have his FFL send the gun to your FFL.

 

[KEYBEAR]

Skans agree 100%

I would drive to the gun and bring it back if you really have to . How many miles away is it ? Gas is cheap

 

[deerslayer303]

I think I'll pass on this one. It's in CA and I'm I'm SC. I just don't feel comfortable at all. Armslist mentioned doing an escrow, but as you guys have pointed out the price of this gun don't warrant an escrow attorney and all that. I have bought guns on here from members and felt ok, but this Armslist is scary. I'm just not that trusting I guess.

 

[osbornk]

I've bought cars, motorcycles, scooters, etc. used on the internet but I never had the nerve to pay for it until I saw it. I will agree to buy something subject to my inspection. I don't trust anyone I don't know and scammers are everywhere. I am sure I have missed some good buys because of my insistence of being close enough to inspect and pick up what I buy but being an insurance adjuster for over 30 years have made me suspicious of everyone. I found that the biggest crooks were members of the most honest professions.

 

[Pahoo]

Always comes down to a matter of trust !!!

Armslist is scary. I'm just not that trusting I guess

Slayer,
I have never dealt with these folks but perhaps they have a buyers protection plan, in place. However, I have bought and traded over the internet with private sellers, including members of this honorable forum. If you are really interested, I'd look into it deeper and have more conversations with the seller. If it still doesn't feel right, I'd back off. .....

I can vouch that "you" are an honest person to deal with and your word is good with me. No guarantees after that. ...

Was there ever a time that a man's word was worth it's weight in gold. I seriously doubt that and for sure, not these days. ....

Be Safe !!!

 

[WW2]

Escrow.com

When selling high price items on eBay I used https://escrow.com/

The took the money from the buyer and held it. They notified me of the funds having been received and I would ship the merchandise and notify escrow.com. Then the buyer would receive the merchandise and notify escrow.com who would release the funds to me.

Here is a schedule of their fees:


Transaction Amount
(Merchandise + Shipping) Standard ........................Premier
$0-$5,000 .................... 3.25% ($25.00 minimum). 6.3% ($25.00 minimum)
$5,000.01-$25,000 ........ $162.50 + 0.26% of amount over $5000
......................................................................... Premier Not available.
$25,000.01 + ................ 0.89%

See the site for full details and costs.

 

[Nathan]

My method. First, find out what FFL is shipping the gun. This is not required unless required by you.

First, find out everything you can about the seller from their username and email. This will also vet out the gun a bit....I.e. If he is complaining about how their 1911 doesn't feed at all, I wouldn't buy a 1911 from them!

Second, require the FFL. Check the FFL out by Google'ing their name and reading about them. Call them. Tell them your plan is to send the owner a money order when the FFL has the gun in possession. Then the FFL is to ship the gun to you insured with tracking. If the FFL agreed to this and you don't get the gun, call him and explain the situation. If he gets you a gun or money, you're good. If not, call the ATF and explain how the FFL stole your gun. Basically, no FFL will be mixed up in a scheme that could have them answering to the ATF or risking their FFL. They can be held responsible.

Third, use a USPS money order. If lost or claimed lost, there is some recourse, I believe.

Forth, pre-arrange a 3 day inspection period without firing on your end. If you contact the owner accepting the gun or three days after delivery, the deal is done.

While this certainly isn't bulletproof, as a buyer, money moves first. It is the standard. That said, protect your money, protect the gun and protect from shipping theft. The FFL on the other end makes this almost a sure thing.

Add in Skans advice. It looks pretty solid, especially in looking out for common scams.

Now, pool cues, prepare to get screwed out of your money! The pool gods owe me $850 cash or $1850 in cues! One guy died to get out of making my cue! The other, well....he just dropped off the face of the earth!

 

[deerslayer303]

Pahoo, I appreciate that my friend and you as well are an honest man to deal with. I was raised that a man's good word and a handshake are all you need, but these days ya can be to careful.
WW2, thank you for that info, I will look into them.

 

[dogtown tom]

Nathan

Second, require the FFL. Check the FFL out by Google'ing their name and reading about them. Call them. Tell them your plan is to send the owner a money order when the FFL has the gun in possession. Then the FFL is to ship the gun to you insured with tracking. If the FFL agreed to this and you don't get the gun, call him and explain the situation. If he gets you a gun or money, you're good. If not, call the ATF and explain how the FFL stole your gun. Basically, no FFL will be mixed up in a scheme that could have them answering to the ATF or risking their FFL. They can be held responsible.

1. Few FFL's want to get involved in schemes like you describe above.
2. If you have a problem and report the FFL...........ATF will chuckle and tell you it's a civil matter and enjoy pounding sand.
3. How much are you willing to pay the above FFL for acting as your escrow service?

 

[Nathan]

1. Few FFL's want to get involved in schemes like you describe above.
2. If you have a problem and report the FFL...........ATF will chuckle and tell you it's a civil matter and enjoy pounding sand.
3. How much are you willing to pay the above FFL for acting as your escrow service?

1. FFL's ship guns all the time. If the guy is legit on the other end, the FFL will ship for a small fee.Not asking him to escrow, just to have the gun. Not my request. The seller would request.

2. No comment. . . .The ATF regulates the interstate commerce of firearms. . .I'll just leave it at that. If you have to go civil, you have an actual person to hold accountable and a transfer in his books.

3. Nothing. If there is a fee, seller should pay. I don't care I'm taking all the risk, so seller has all fees/accommodations.


Yes, sometimes not all phases of this can be negotiated. So, then your decide risk vs reward??

 

[AustinTX]

I have bought guns on here from members and felt ok, but this Armslist is scary.

Armslist is terrible. So many scams. I'd only ever use it to arrange a face-to-face transaction in a busy place, like a gun range.

 

[phwe9774]

I've bought three guns (a Mauser, Remington Sportsman 78 and a Browning shotgun) through Armslist with no problems. We met somewhere neutral on all but one of them (i had a buddy and we both were armed just in case something went sideways in this random guy's apartment) and I didn't even take the money out of my pocket until I was satisfied with the condition of the gun. That being said, I've bought a lot of stuff on the internet and the only website I'll buy anything before I can see it it eBay. EBay is only because those transactions are insured and guaranteed by eBay.

 

[MoGas1341]

I will personally attest that my local gun shop owner, Don, will not fax his FFL because someone on Armslist stole his FFL number and was using it to falsely sell SCAR-17s. They would ask to receive the FFL to that they were to ship to and the payment, and when inquired by the receiving shop, they would use Don's FFL. The perpetraitors would then receive the money from the purchaser and since there were no guns to send, they would keep the money. This person is also in India, and the US Gov cant touch them. He told me that they (armslist) is full of scammers and to avoid it like the plague.

 

[Nathan]

^^^^Interesting. I suppose it does happen like that. I usually sell there. I use it to arrange FTF deals.

I have bought off forums. I wonder how Armslist will react to this, if true. Continuing this way will likely close them soon.

 

[Skans]

Third, use a USPS money order. If lost or claimed lost, there is some recourse, I believe.

I have to disagree with this. If you are selling, then you might want to demand a USPS money order. But, from a buyer's perspective, this is like sending cash in the mail. You are better off sending a personal check and give plenty of time for the check to clear. The check will have to be deposited into someone's account. This is a deterrent for scammers, because personal check can be easily traced.

 

[Nathan]

....but I won't take your personal check. Nobody else will either. Even waiting until it clears, the other bank can request their funds back.