S&W SD40 shooting really low and to the left...

[Erikbal]

I went shooting with a friend of mine yesterday and he brought his SD40. It's an earlier model that has some of the M&P parts on it such as the sights (at least the rear I know) and a few other things. It also came with a light and a metal locking case for it. Anyways at about 25 feet or so, it is shooting around 18 inches low and slightly to the left. He had to shoot 18 inches above the target just to hit it. I know it's not just him because he shot my SR9c and his .22 just fine, and I also had the same issue shooting his gun.

The sights are only adjustable for windage, not for elevation. I told him he should call up Smith and Wesson and see what they have to say and possibly send the gun back. Any other ideas/input? I think you guys here are the best around and if we are missing something you guys could help. Thanks for your time!!!

 

[Walt Sherrill]

S&W can send him a new rear sight that is higher, a new rear sight that is lower, or both.

When he calls, he needs to tell them the distance to the target, and how far from the point of aim he's hitting. (He should be sure he's using the sighting technique specified in the owner's manual -- I think there's a photo showing proper sight alignment.)

After a new sight is installed, the "LEFT" part of the problem can be adjusted by shifting the rear sight to the right -- using a sight pusher, ior a wooden dowel or brash punch and a light hammer.

Not: They may ask him to remove the existng sights to see if there's a number on them so they know what's installed.

This tooll will give you/him an idea of how much higher his rear sight needs to be , or how much lower his front sight needs to be.

http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/lid=13093/GunTechdetail/Sight_Correction_Calculator

 

[Erikbal]

Awesome thanks a lot for the help! I am going to give him the link to this so he can check it out, thanks again.

 

[g.willikers]

There's gotta' be something else going on other than the sights.
An 18" correction at a mere 25 ft would require a huge sight change.
The bullet could be thrown straighter than that.
Did you mean 1.8"?

 

[TunnelRat]

Anyways at about 25 feet or so, it is shooting around 18 inches low and slightly to the left. He had to shoot 18 inches above the target just to hit it.

Agree with g. That kind of discrepancy is most likely shooter, or you would have a REALLY high front sight.

I know it's not just him because he shot my SR9c and his .22 just fine, and I also had the same issue shooting his gun.

That doesn't mean much. Shooting one gun fine doesn't mean you'll shoot every gun fine. There are plenty of differences in triggers.

It's also not a slight on the shooter. Even professional shooters have to adapt to different triggers and systems.

 

[carguychris]

^^^^ +1 (+2?)

S&W Sigmas have notoriously long and heavy triggers, and a shot WAAAY low and to the left is a frequent hallmark of a shooter who's not accustomed to a heavy DAO or first-shot DA/SA trigger. My suspicion is that Erikbal's friend is unconsciously pulling the muzzle downwards with the trigger pull.

I have two suggestions:

(1) Suggest that he buy a set of quality snap caps and dry-fire the heck out of the gun until he can hold the sights nearly still through the trigger pull. I suspect he'll find that the front sight vanishes below the slide the first few times he tries this.

BTW although I'm not familiar with the Sigma specifically, the slide of other striker-fired DAO pistols will cock the striker with only a slight ~1/2" tug to the rear, so he shouldn't have to eject the snap cap in order to dry-fire repeatedly; OTOH if he does have to eject the snap caps, consider it failure drill practice.

(2) After doing #1 for a few evenings, have him go to the range with you or another friend serving as a helper. The helper repeatedly hands him a mag loaded with either a single snap cap or a single live round, without telling him which; go for about a 1:4 live-to-dummy ratio. I betcha the pistol groups in the center of the target.

 

[MrApathy]

shoot from a bench?

might consult shooters bad habits and the wheel of bad habits.
low left I am guessing you and your friend are right handed.

I had same problem shooting low left with a 8lbs trigger on SW 9ve sigma and kel-tec p11 though was worse with p11 due to its longer pull and odd break.

might try looking up apex tactical for trigger kit for SD series IIRC it drops trigger from 8 lbs to 6 lbs and after use a little more.

 

[Erikbal]

There's gotta' be something else going on other than the sights.
An 18" correction at a mere 25 ft would require a huge sight change.
The bullet could be thrown straighter than that.
Did you mean 1.8"?

I meant literally about 18 inches. I am kind of used to the long DA trigger on my bodyguard, so the SD isn't a whole lot different. I am pretty accurate with the bodyguard, he shot it well too. Thanks a lot for all the suggestions guys. I'll show him this thread and see what he has to say. I'd like to get in some more rang time so maybe him and I can go together again and focus on his gun and shooting and see if we can have some improvement. What's a good site to get some snap caps? I've been wanting to get some for myself as well for dry fire practice.

 

[Theohazard]

The only reason for you to buy snap caps is to practice loading and unloading your gun and to mix them into a magazine of live rounds for training; most modern guns don't need snap caps for dry fire practice, it doesn't hurt them at all to dry fire with the chamber empty. All the striker-fired guns I know of like the Glock and M&P are fine to dry fire without snap caps and I can't imagine that your SD40 is any different. In fact, it's GOOD for many guns if you dry fire them as much as possible; it helps smooth out the trigger mechanism.

 

[TunnelRat]

In fact, it's GOOD for many guns if you dry fire them as much as possible; it helps smooth out the trigger mechanism.

I agree, but snap caps won't inhibit that in any way.

 

[Theohazard]

Deleted, double post.

 

[Theohazard]

True. I guess my point is that dry firing without snap caps is not only fine for the gun, but it can be good for it. But you're right: using snap caps won't change any of that, but they're just completely unnecessary in most guns.

 

[Erikbal]

Yeah that's a good point. I do remember seeing in my SR9c owner's manual that it is fine to dry fire with an empty magazine in it.

 

[lee n. field]

He had to shoot 18 inches above the target just to hit it. I know it's not just him because he shot my SR9c and his .22 just fine, and I also had the same issue shooting his gun..... I told him he should call up Smith and Wesson and see what they have to say and possibly send the gun back. Any other ideas/input?

That's pretty much it.

Two different people shoot it, have the same problem, points to a problem with the gun, not the shooter. A foot and a half low at 8 yards is a lot. Get it looked at.

 

[TunnelRat]

Two different people shoot it, have the same problem, points to a problem with the gun, not the shooter.

I disagree. Could easily be the shooters. Again that is no insult to the shooters, but more so at the very stiff trigger of the Sigmas. Unless there is a noticeable problem with the lockup, the difference in the sights would have to be massive for that impact problem.

 

[Theohazard]

I've seen relatively experienced people shoot that low using guns with heavy DA triggers, but they were shooting in a dynamic training situation under stress. It's a little odd that two people would have the exact same problem with the gun and pull the shots the same amount, but it's not unheard of and it's definitely possible.

However, here's what I think: I think the "slightly to the left" is a classic case of two right-handed shooters jerking the trigger; but BOTH of you shooting 18" low at 25' seems extreme, especially since you both have experience with other guns and you were taking your time. If you said you were 6" low and slightly to the left, I'd say it was you, but 18" at 25' is a lot and you're both doing it the exact same amount, which makes me thing it might be the gun.

But you should do a little more troubleshooting first. Try to have someone else besides you and your friend shoot it; at many ranges there's almost always someone around who is an instructor, competition shooter, or just darn good. If you can't find someone else to shoot it, try shooting it at 25' from a rest of some kind.