S&W mod. 25, 45Colt loads
- Thread starter Longshot4
- Start date
One of the first considerations is what version of a M25 your friend has. Prior to the M25-7 Smith and Wesson 45 LC's used .455" chamber mouths. After then, I think the dimension was 0.452", whatever the exact dimension, it is less than the older revolver chamber mouths. I had one of the older M25's and it leaded and gave poor accuracy with .452" cast bullets. I was able to shoot 0.454" cast bullets and the accuracy improved and leading decreased significantly. Almost all commercial cast bullets are 0.452", so this is a consideration for older revolvers. I have a caster who will produce 0.454" bullets and that is what I use. I have shot 0.452" and 0.454" diameter in late model 45LC's with the tighter chamber mouths and found no real issues, accuracy, pressure, or velocity.
I have shot hundreds, if not thousands of pounds of 250 LRN, LSWC with 8.5 grains Unique. That usually gave me about 850 to 900 fps depending on the conditions. Unique is such an outstanding powder in this caliber that I think it should be first choice for anyone looking for standard velocity loads. Back in 1993 I purchased a lot of Unique powder, and most of my data reflects that older version. I did go out and shoot the new stuff and it appears to be faster. I would start with 7.5 grains and work my way up with that stuff.
I am frustrated with the inconsistency I get with Accurate Arms powders. I developed a load in a SAA with 10.5. grs AA#5 and it shot great and was about 825-850 fps. Well, with this different lot of AA#5, 10.5 grs is faster than I want. I don’t want 875 fps, so I am going to retest, and I expect 9.5 grs will give me what I want. AA#5 is a ball powder, shoots “cleaner” than Unique, though that does not make the slightest difference on paper or in clean up time. What I do not like about AA#5 is the fact little balls of powder roll out of my Dillion 550B powder horn slide and mess up the loading table. I have to frequently clean up as I don't want powder on surfaces.
I thought might be of interest is the Wolf primer data. Looks to be a mild primer.
My loads are accurate enough to hit my 12 gong target each shot, standing, shooting one handed, at 50 yards. I don’t always hit each shot. I am very happy if I hit 5/6. The distance is within the range limitations of where I shoot.
It is worth repeating, the M25 series of pistols are not as stoutly built as the Ruger Blackhawks or Ruger Redhawks. Therefore loads that exceed 1000 fps are going to beat up a M25. The only appropriate loads in these pistols are the Colt SAA level of loads. Sure, there will be nut cases who consistently push their loads to higher pressures, and it is only a matter of time till their cylinders fatigue fracture and they blow their pistols up. A 250-255 grain bullet is plenty powerful from 800 to 900 fps. I have not shot, nor am I interested in shooting heavier bullets. I have no idea how 270 or 300 grain bullets do in the 45 LC because standard weight bullets perform well on target.
I have shot hundreds, if not thousands of pounds of 250 LRN, LSWC with 8.5 grains Unique. That usually gave me about 850 to 900 fps depending on the conditions. Unique is such an outstanding powder in this caliber that I think it should be first choice for anyone looking for standard velocity loads. Back in 1993 I purchased a lot of Unique powder, and most of my data reflects that older version. I did go out and shoot the new stuff and it appears to be faster. I would start with 7.5 grains and work my way up with that stuff.
I am frustrated with the inconsistency I get with Accurate Arms powders. I developed a load in a SAA with 10.5. grs AA#5 and it shot great and was about 825-850 fps. Well, with this different lot of AA#5, 10.5 grs is faster than I want. I don’t want 875 fps, so I am going to retest, and I expect 9.5 grs will give me what I want. AA#5 is a ball powder, shoots “cleaner” than Unique, though that does not make the slightest difference on paper or in clean up time. What I do not like about AA#5 is the fact little balls of powder roll out of my Dillion 550B powder horn slide and mess up the loading table. I have to frequently clean up as I don't want powder on surfaces.
I thought might be of interest is the Wolf primer data. Looks to be a mild primer.
My loads are accurate enough to hit my 12 gong target each shot, standing, shooting one handed, at 50 yards. I don’t always hit each shot. I am very happy if I hit 5/6. The distance is within the range limitations of where I shoot.
It is worth repeating, the M25 series of pistols are not as stoutly built as the Ruger Blackhawks or Ruger Redhawks. Therefore loads that exceed 1000 fps are going to beat up a M25. The only appropriate loads in these pistols are the Colt SAA level of loads. Sure, there will be nut cases who consistently push their loads to higher pressures, and it is only a matter of time till their cylinders fatigue fracture and they blow their pistols up. A 250-255 grain bullet is plenty powerful from 800 to 900 fps. I have not shot, nor am I interested in shooting heavier bullets. I have no idea how 270 or 300 grain bullets do in the 45 LC because standard weight bullets perform well on target.
Code:
[SIZE="3"][B]M25-7 Smith and Wesson 5" barrel[/B]
255 LRN (.452") 8.5 grain Unique thrown R-P cases WLP (nickle) primers
26-May-97 T ≈ 75-80 ° F
Ave Vel =869
Std Dev =10
ES = 31
Low = 858
High =889
N = 6
255 LRN (.452") 6.3 grs Bullseye thrown R-P cases WLP (nickle) primers
26-May-97 T ≈ 75-80 ° F
Ave Vel =776
Std Dev =11
ES = 28
Low = 765
High =793
N = 6
255 LSWC (.452") 8.0 grs Unique lot 6/21/1993 mixed cases WLP (nickel)
23-Sep-07 T = 80 °F
Ave Vel =815.5
Std Dev =28.74
ES = 77.48
High =852.6
Low = 775.1
N = 12
250 LSWC (.452") 10.5 grs AA#5 lot 12599 mixed cases WLP (nickel)
23-Sep-07 T = 80 °F
Ave Vel =911.8
Std Dev =33.28
ES =160.1
High =949
Low =842.9
N =18
250 LSWC (.452") 10.5 grs AA#5 lot 12599 mixed cases Wolf NCLP
23-Sep-07 T = 80 °F
Ave Vel =840.9
Std Dev =16.67
ES = 47.31
High =865.3
Low = 818
N = 12
[URL=http://smg.photobucket.com/user/SlamFire/media/Smith%20and%20Wesson%20Pistols/ReducedM25-7rightsideDSCN2028.jpg.html][IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v479/SlamFire/Smith%20and%20Wesson%20Pistols/ReducedM25-7rightsideDSCN2028.jpg[/IMG][/URL][/SIZE]
Code:
[SIZE="3"][B]M625-9 Mountain Gun 4" Barrel [/B]
250 JHP 8.5 grs Unique thrown, W-W cases, WLP primers
18-Mar-07 T = 55 °F V, accurate
Ave Vel = 830
Std Dev = 30
ES= 103.5
High= 893.4
Low= 789.8
Number Shots= 12
250 Nosler JHP 17.5 grs 2400 thrown, Master cases, Fed150 primers
18-Mar-07 T = 55 °F V, accurate uncomfortable recoil
Ave Vel = 971
Std Dev = 25
ES= 69.47
High= 1003
Low= 933.5
Number Shots= 11
255 LSWC (.452") 8.0 grs Unique thrown, lot 6/21/1993Starline cases, WLP primers
25-Mar-07 T = 80 °F accurate
Ave Vel = 800
Std Dev = 30
ES 99.02
High 847.2
Low 748.1
Number Shots 11
250 LRN (.452") Valiant 8.0 grs Unique lot 6/21/1993 thrown, R-P cases, WLP primers
25-Mar 07 T = 80°F accurate
Ave Vel = 814
Std Dev = 24
ES 72.81
High 847
Low 774.2
Number Shots 11
250 LRN (.454") Valiant 8.5 grs Unique thrown lot 5471, 4/3/06, R-P cases, WLP primers
25-Mar-07 T = 80 °F accurate
Ave Vel = 891
Std Dev = 17
ES 61.31
High 921.1
Low 859.8
Number Shots 27
255 LSWC (.452") 8.0 grs Unique lot 6/21/1993 mixed cases WLP (nickel)
23-Sep-07 T = 82 °F
Ave Vel = 802.5
Std Dev = 31.03
ES = 123.5
High = 867.2
Low = 743.6
N = 12
250 LSWC (.452") 10.5 grs AA#5 lot 12599 mixed cases WLP (nickel)
23-Sep-07 T = 82 °F
Ave Vel = 875.1
Std Dev = 19.36
ES = 62.64
High = 905.7
Low = 843
N = 12
250 LSWC (.452") 10.5 grs AA#5 lot 12599 mixed cases Wolf NCLP
23-Sep-07 T = 82 °F
Ave Vel = 826.2
Std Dev = 20.14
ES = 63.38
High = 862.1
Low = 798.7
N = 12
[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v479/SlamFire/Smith%20and%20Wesson%20Pistols/M62545LCReduced.jpg[/IMG][/SIZE]Pathfinder45
New member
Great work Slamfire; I concur. I can't speak about the S&W revolvers, but your reloads and powder recommendations resonate well with my 40 years experience reloading the 45 Colt. If there is one Must-Have powder for the 45 Colt, Unique is the prime candidate.
Thanks. I suspect you already know this, but in a revolver that has 0.452' chamber throats, not the huge 0.456"-.458" throats reported for Colt SAA's, and of course bullets that are .452" or 0.454", the 45 LC is an accurate cartridge. It is an excellent balance of low pressure, accuracy, and whoomp on target. I think it would be an outstanding personnel defense round, and so it has proved for over 140 years.
Pathfinder45
New member
Slamfire, when are you going to test those balloon-head cases packed with fffG over the chronograph?
Been thinking of it. I now have a 7.5 " 45 LC revolver, the main barrier has been the time it takes to melt the lube out of the bullets I have, and then pan lube the things with a blackpowder lube. I plan to lube the case sides of the balloon head cases so they don't stick in the chamber. I think this is the reason people have reported case head separations with these cases. These cases are so thin that when the case walls adhere to the chamber, the case head has to stretch to take up the headspace, and that results in a rupture of the case head.
