S&W: Here's how to make a great product better!

[45_Shooter]

Well since it's summer I've been messing around with my lockless 642 and toying with the idea of getting a second 'mouse' gun to boot. After quite a bit of trigger/carry time, I put together a wish list that I'd like to see S&W offer in the 642 as upgrades:

1. Cut the cylinder for moon clips. You can either use the clips, a speedloader, or loose rounds, so there is really no downside and it opens up more flexibility. I'd imagine it would be pretty cheap for S&W to implement this at the factory.

2. Install higher profile, crisper sights. These guns are quite accurate, but using that accuracy is hard due to the sight picture. If they made something that was dovetailed in so it could be changed, even better. Factory night sights would be a nice option.

3. Make the trigger better in stock form. Every new 642 or 638 I've handled has had an awful trigger. I smoothed it out on mine with a stone, but improving the MIM molding process for the internals would go a long way.

4. Offer forged internals as an option. The performance center still installs these into some guns from what I understand, and I know more than one enthusiast that would gladly pay the extra dough to get them in an defensive piece.

5. Make the lockless guns a permanent option. Everyone knows the argument so I wont reopen it other than to say that I dislike the ILS, and am willing pay a premium for examples that don't have it, and I'm not the only one.

6. Make a 2.5" barrel an option, so that the ejector rod more fully ejects .38's, or remove the front locking system in favor of a crane lock on the 1 7/8" barrels.

Comments?

 

[kle]

1. Would definitely be nice, and should be easy to do.

2. I could take it or leave it; at the distances I envision myself using my 642, point-shooting or flash-sight-picture (i.e. roughly aimed) would be the order of the day, though being able to pick up the sights faster would be nice.

3. Dryfiring a couple hundred times with snapcaps smoothed out the trigger pretty nicely on my 642 (I'm usually pretty skeptical of such practice, but it worked this time). Of course, I have the time and dedication to sit around and pull the trigger a couple hundred times. Someone else might not have that luxury.

4. At the very least, use a forged trigger assembly; I don't like the MIM triggers--they feel too blocky and square to me. On my target guns, I've swapped out the MIM triggers for forged triggers, and they feel so much better to me. The hammers and other MIM internals...well, they haven't broken on me yet.

5. Option = Feature. Make them a permanent feature.

6. a 2.5" barrel would limit the number of holsters you could use, but a full-length ejector rod would be nice. Having to pluck out the one or two stubborn empty cases after ejecting the rest is annoying (even after pointing the gun upwards before working the ejector rod).

 

[CraigC]

...would gladly pay the extra dough....and am willing pay a premium...

Here's where you lose me. They've already cheapened the guns so much but the prices continue to climb. They're already a poor value, pay a premium over what they already want for them? No way!!!

I'm just thinking about that new blued K-22 with a $1050 MSRP. Then I think about my older K-22 that I paid $265 for (adjusted to $354 with inflation) that has everything I want and nothing I don't.

 

[45_Shooter]

Here's where you lose me. They've already cheapened the guns so much but the prices continue to climb. They're already a poor value, pay a premium over what they already want for them? No way!!!

I feel you're right about some products S&W makes, but my no-lock 642 was $415 last summer, more than reasonable IMO. I would have gladly given another $100-200 for forged internals, better sights, moon clips, etc. and to continue to buy a version without the lock (fortunately my no-lock version was the same price as a lock version, although I have seen shops mark up the no-lock and still sell them just fine)

 

[BillCA]

45_Shooter,

I say nix on the moon clip idea for one reason. If you've ever used moon clips with long cartridges like the .38/.357, you'll know that they sometimes require quite a bit of wiggling around to seat them. People don't practice enough with speedloaders as it is... with moon clips they're likely to practice even less because they're a pain to empty & refill.

Moon clips work find with short cartridges like the .45 ACP and 9mm because there's not much length to the cartridge. I prefer moon & half-moon clips in my Model 25's over using .45 Auto-rim and speedloaders however, because the cartridges are so short they're actually harder to align with a speedloader.

Sights: a dovetail to allow use of other sights would be a good idea. The sights on a snubby should be low profile, but easy to pick up with the eye. I use Bright-Sights orange sight paint on mine to help acquire the front sight faster.

Offering forged triggers & hammer parts as parts you could order and have a smith refit would be great. While I'm not fond of the MIM parts, they seem to be holding up reasonably well.

A 3-inch barrel is probably more likely that a 2.5" as they already have produced those in .38 Special J-Frames. And a 3-inch balances well on the J-Frame too.

 

[Bill DeShivs]

Making a revolver work both with and without moon clips is extremely problematic-especially with a rimmed cartridge and without an extractor groove. That is what speedloaders are for.

 

[45_Shooter]

Making a revolver work both with and without moon clips is extremely problematic-especially with a rimmed cartridge and without an extractor groove. That is what speedloaders are for.

Most of the custom shops currently offering moon clip conversion on revolvers are advertising it as being able to accomodate loose rounds, speedloaders, or moon clips. How well it actually works, I dunno. I'd like to try it out though.

 

[CraigC]

What's possible for a custom gunsmith is not always applicable to mass production.

 

[alistaire]

Moon clips won't stay in place on rimmed cartridges because there is no extractor grove for them to lock into. I could see S&W offering a 9mm J-frame setup for moon clips. I bet it would sell even to people like me who don't use 9mm autoloaders.