S & W guys - I need some help/advice please on what I should be looking for . . .

[bedbugbilly]

Quick explanation . . . I'm pretty much a "revolver guy" - been shooting 50 years and do have some semis but much prefer revolvers and am partial to the 38 spl. I currently CCW a Ruger LCR. I don't have much experience with S & Ws but I do have a 1920s something M & P Target with a 6" that is a true joy to shoot.

I'd like to get a S & W with a 3" barrel - have always wanted one and I think a 3" would be nice - fairly easy to CCW and halfway decent for the type of range shooting. I normally carry on the belt. I'm in AZ during the winters so it's easy to do and not print under a jacket or a shirt with the tail out.

Last year, I passed on a M & P with a 4" barrel - typical blued "police model" that was pristine. I've kicked myself ever since but I really want a J frame if I can. I'm 5'-11", 200 pds. but my hands are smaller - not like "hams" and the J frames I've handled in the past have felt good (snub nose models).

In looking around, I spotted the following blued "classic" 38 with a 3" barrel on Buds. Link below . . .

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/...on+5+Round+38+Classic+Revolver+w3"+BarrelWood

I really like this model but can't find anything about it - doesn't show on the Smith site - is it still being made? This looks like what I am looking for but so far, I haven't been able to find out if it is still made or a delivery time if ordered.

If not, then from what I'm seeing on the Smith site - a 60 seems to be what I'm looking for? Basically, I like "vintage style" revolvers but now it seems like most come with rubber/composite grips? Are the frames of the 60s a standard profile frame so that any J frame wood grips could be switched out for the rubber?

It will be several weeks before I have time to start looking in the LGSs that are near me and I'd like to be better informed than I currently am before I start looking. Besides the 60 that is shown on the site - what older/vintage model numbers should I be looking for that are J frame and would have a 3" barrel? While I'm pretty much a "blued" fan, I would take blue or "shiny" if i can find a decent one. What price range would be reasonable for a used 60 that is newer or a different 3" J frame model that is older and more vintage?

While I like my LCR . . . I have two pistols at the top of my "want list" - a 3" J frame and a J frame snubbie - I am comfortable with a 5 shot revolver for carry. The only thing I see that might be comparable to a J frame with a 3" barrel is Ruger's 101 but since I haven't had the opportunity to see either and compare, I'm still leaning towards a Smith - I have plenty of Rugers and I just think a Smith is more what I'm looking for.

I will also say that I am used to shooting SA revolvers with blade front sight and a grooved frame for the rear sight so fancy adjustable sights is not a high priority with me. I'm not going to be shooting competition with it . . . primarily paper at SD ranges.

Sorry for the length of this post. I figured those with much more experience with S & W could steer me in the direction I need to head in order to get what I'm looking for. Many thanks for any help and information. Greatly appreciated!

 

[MLeake]

"Classic" these days normally means new guns made to resemble old guns, as far as Smith and Wesson goes. Of course, they will not be classic in the sense of being mechanically identical. The new "Classic" revolvers will have two-piece barrels, some MIM parts, and (usually) the ILS lock that many of us dislike.

I have friends who swear by the reliability and quality of the new lines. On aesthetics, and out of dislike for the ILS and what it represents, I prefer the older guns.

That said, some of the new J frames can be had with no lock. I am not sure if any of those no-locks are available in 3" configuration.

 

[JimmyR]

Model 36

What you are looking at is a Model 36 Classic. They appear to be the same (Save for some "modernizations" in manufacturing that MLeake pointed out) as the Model 36 of old. That might help you find more information about that particular model, and find more like it.

 

[micromontenegro]

I think you're barking at the right tree. I own quite a few Smiths, and have owned a lot more, but consider the 3 inch J frame .38 a sweet spot gun- one that does a lot of things well. It is a revolver that is "just right". Very accurate, I'd say a whole lot more than anyone can reasonably expect, and with square butt grips, just the right size to be comfortable to hold yet easy to conceal.

If I were you, I'd look for an older 36-1 (heavy 3 inch barrel .38 spl) or better yet, a 36 with the standard profile 3 incher.

 

[Obambulate]

The older M36 3" in blue steel would be perfect. There is also the M60-4, a 3" stainless J-frame with adjustable sights, make in the early 1990's. There are also some current 3" J-frames in.357/.38, but I like the older ones in .38 Special only.

 

[PetahW]

.

FWIW, my youngest (adult) Daughter's CCW gun of choice is a hard-to-find 3" S&W J-frame Model 37 Airweight - the alloy-framed version of the Model 36.


You're right - I find a 3" J-frame S&W much better than the shorter-barreled M36 or stainless M60 S&W's.




.

 

[bedbugbilly]

Thank you very much gentlemen - your posts have been a great help!

I have hunted up the Model 36 on GB and yes - that looks exactly like what I'm looking for and have in mind.

Now . . . that has generated a couple of more questions.

I have and have had some revolvers and semis with the "internal lock". It's never been a problem as I just ignore them - I'm 60, my wife and I don't have children and my guns are always either tucked away where they aren't to be found to be played with by anyone or they are under my watch. So, I don't worry about the internal lock and so far, have never had a problem with them in any way.

However, 1st question . . . on the "newer" Smiths that have the internal locks, can there be a problem with them or if left alone and not worried about, will all go smoothly and not a surprise "lock up"? May be a stupid question but just wondering . . .

#2 - comparing a new or newer model 60 with a three inch barrel . . . are their drastic differences between it and a more vintage model 36 with a three inch barrel? i.e. weight, different features other than the internal lock, etc.?

#3 - after your kind references to the Model 36, what about carrying with all five chambers loaded? When I was taught to shoot SA many, MANY years ago , it was on SA revolvers which were "vintage" at that time. I was always taught to carry an empty chamber under the hammer (I'm talking Colt style SA) for safety. How about the 36 model? Safe to carry with all 5 chambers loaded? I would assume that they must have some type of cross bar safety built in or other safety feature to allow a loaded chamber under the hammer so you have five shots?

#4 - not being that familiar with Smiths . . . what are the differences between the "dash numbers"? How may dash numbers are there for the 36 model - i.e. 36-1, 36-2, etc.? I am assuming the dash numbers indicate minor changes in design ? or is it related to date of manufacture? Are there any model 36 dash numbers that are better than others or things a person needs to look out for on certain dash numbers?

The model 36 looks to be just what I'm looking for and I was glad to see the responses to the J frame size, 3" barrel length, etc. as being pretty ideal - it looks like what I have had in mind for my needs. I've looked on GB and the prices seem to be all over the place (yea, I know . . . ). I'm not afraid to pay good money for one in nice shape . . . you get what you pay for. I just don't want to "over pay" and get stung. I know it varies from location to location but what price range should I expect to pay for a decent model 36? Someone mentioned "barrel weight" - I am assuming some were made with standard weight barrels and some with heavier (for want of a better word "bull" barrels)? Is a heavier barreled version more than a standard weight or did I misunderstand about the barrel weights?

After doing more looking after your suggestions . . . I have to say that I probably wouldn't be adverse to having one of each barrel weights . . . somehow I think my "quest" for finding one of these is going to be pretty addictive! Thanks for any information - greatly appreciated.

 

[MLeake]

Carry modern S&W with chambers loaded; they are drop safe via a hammer block that requires trigger pull to clear.

(Later model Rugers accomplish drop safety via a transfer bar, which also requires a trigger pull.)

Edit: Both transfer bars and hammer blocks prevent firing pin engagement unless the trigger is pulled.

Dash numbers indicate engineering changes, such as going from a pinned to an unpinned barrel. Dash numbers mean different changes for different models.

Malfunctions of the ILS are rare, and usually involve aluminum or scandium framed lightweight revolvers, shooting hot magnum loads. Some of us do not like the minimal risk, though, as we see zero gain to offset even a minimal risk.

And some of us just hate the look of an open sore on our frames...

I prefer older guns, or new no-lock J frames.

 

[Grant D]

A couple of years ago my LGS had a S&W Model 60 two inch, and a three inch for sale.

I bought the two inch,and now wish I had gotten the three inch!
I like the balance, and adjustable sights on the three inch model.

I also only carry my snub's, J frame, and K frames in a OWB holster, they just seem to big for pocket carry for me, even the airweights.

 

[James K]

For many years, I carried a 3" Model 36 with a steel square butt (not a round butt filled out with wood). I thought that was about the ideal for a carry gun; light enough to be easy to carry, long enough barrel to give a meaningful sight picture, and enough weight to absorb the recoil of fairly stout .28 Special loads.

It shot 2" groups at 7 yards, DA, and could (with holdover) hit a man-size target at 100 yards. Not too bad for a "snubby".

Jim

 

[Obambulate]

With the older models, condition and rarity are what matter most. The 3" M36 is rarer than the 2", so I estimate they run about $100 more, on average. I believe the 3" is available in both square butt and round butt, so you may want to decide which you prefer. As for the size and weight of the older models, it will be within a few ounces of the modern 3" steel J-frames.

 

[Nathan]

I think the J frame 3" question is answered, but it might workout better to go to a 13 or 65. It is a bit beefier so it is a 357 mag. Not too big at all, especially in a OWB holster.

 

[jim8115]

3" model 10

 

[MLeake]

Guys, the OP says he owns a 6" K frame, and handled but passed on a 4" K.

I think he is pretty sure he wants a J.

The round butt on most 3" K frame does conceal more easily than the square butt on the 4" models (I own 3" round butts in 13 and 65 flavors, and a square butt Model 18), but overall length, height, width, and weight are noticeably more for the K than the J (I also own a 442).

 

[bedbugbilly]

MLeake . . . yes, you are correct on that. I have a K frame - 6" Target. While I love it for target shooting/plinking, I really want a smaller J frame for carry. And, I did pass on a 10-? last year with a 4" barrel. My regret on that one is that it was really nice - looked like it only had a few rounds through it - probably a sock drawer gun. I should have picked it up "just because".

Not being that familiar with Smiths, all of your responses have been very informative and I continue to look at different information, reviews, etc. After the responses on here and in looking at various sources of information, I'm sure that either a 36 or a 60 with a 3" barrel would pretty much be ideal for what i'm looking for.

In terms of "cartridge" - I already have several .357s - a LCR that I currently carry, a New Vaquero, etc. as well as a SR9. I honestly have only utilized 357 cartridges on several occasions - and that was to try them out at the range. I am very comfortable with a 38 spl.

In comparing (in my reading) the SP101 to the S & W 36 or 60, I still lean towards either of the Smiths. Nothing wrong with Rugers, I love 'em and have 'em but I'm also considering the weight of the Ruger, etc. I've handled air weights and they are nice but I still like a "steel" gun. When I was looking for a snubbie, I looked at a number of Smith models, compared a variety of makes and the LCR felt the best in my hand.

I do leatherwork and make holsters, etc. as a hobby so coming up with a decent OTB holster for a 3" will not be a problem. I'm not a big fan of internal locks but I do realize that they are a fact of life and it's my understanding that they can be taken care of an plugged - if I go with a new pistol. I'm looking around to see if I can find a good used 36 or 60 that ore pre IL. If not, I'm comfortable with a new pistol that has a IL.

I'm away from home for a week but will start on the search as soon as I get back. I know things are crazy right now in terms of supply and demand - if a Smith has to be ordered, does anyone know what one should expect for a delivery time?

As a side note for you "Smith lovers" - a couple of years ago I had a chance to pick up a blued 4" Colt Python at a low price - it's about 98%. I bought it for an investment and because I've always heard (from Colt lovers) what a great pistol it is. I don't disagree with that but after shooting it a number of times, I still go back to my 1920 something vintage K frame Target. (for punching paper). I'm hanging on to the Python as an investment but I think I've been bitten by the "Smith bug" - so I have a feeling that if I can find a 36 or 60, my Smith family will continue to grow.

Many thanks to all for your kind responses and information - it's greatly appreciated!

 

[MLeake]

bedbugbilly, you probably already realize this, but the model 60 can be had in .357 as well as in .38 special. I don't personally like .357 in anything lighter than an SP101, but having options is rarely a bad thing.

You may also realize that J frame triggers are different from K frame triggers in more than just reach and leverage. The K uses a leaf spring, while the J uses a coil. They have a different feel, IMO.

Apex sells a spring kit for the J. Some recommend against lightening an SD trigger, citing either the possibility of ND under stress, or the possibility of light strikes.

The Apex kit took my 442 from a measured 14.5lbs to a measured 9lbs - easier, but still safe against inadvertent pull. I have not had any light strike issues, but I would recommend testing any potential carry loads.

If you do a spring replacement, I would also recommend a light sanding / deburring of the trigger return shoe. Doing that really smoothed up my 442.