S&W action job

iblong

New member
I picked up my 638 today it was in for a action job,The smith that did the work came highly recomended.All I can say is WOW!.
The difference is night and day.They have a range downstairs so I put 100rnds down range.I was hitting better in double action than I could in single action before.Worth every penny,Problem is now I have to bring in 3 more because they all need to be like this.
Bob.
 

WVfishguy

New member
Did they replace the firing pin with a longer one?

Never heard of that. Just got my Model 28 back from my 'smith today, and it's slicker'n snot, got my wife's Ruger Service Six done last week, it's good too, but never heard of changing a firing pin.

Is that something 'smiths do now? :confused:
 

redrick

New member
The Smith that I talked to told me, that he would have to install a longer firing pin if he did a action job on my 642. He said they barely hit the primer now.and that I would not be able to dry fire it after installing the longer firing pin. Does this sound right?
 

Tom2

New member
Does a longer pin compensate for a light hammer strike or something? Have you fired the gun and noticed any light strikes on the primers yet? Remember with too long of a pin, on some guns, you may get a pierced primer! Firing pin protrusion is set at the factory and after 50 some years of J frames, Smith should know what it takes for reliable ignition. Not like they are some pot metal pocket pistol maker or something.
 

BillCA

New member
The move to the frame-mounted firing pin (as opposed to the older hammer-mounted firing pin) caused some issues with primer strikes in early models.

In early models, hard primers did not ignite reliably because the firing pin was just a hair too short. A longer firing pin was used to improve reliability on some models.

If a gunsmith replaces your firing pin as "a routine job" without checking its size, I'd find a different 'smith.

By the way... since some of you are praising your gunsmiths, why not do them the favor of some free advertising -- so we know who's done a good job?
 

Zombie Steve

New member
Is your 'smith doing a "Bubba" trigger job that causes light strikes, then adding a longer firing pin to compensate? If so,





FAIL.
 

Three44s

New member
Didn't need any tuning ........ just use!!!

My absolute fav ........ a 629 Mountain Gun ....... did not need any work ....


........ just a bunch of shooting and dry fire ........

...... it just got better and better ........... and BETTER!!!

It's so good now ...... I can hardly stand it .......... yes, life is good with a pre-lock Smith!

Three 44s
 

James K

Member In Memoriam
The problem with J frames and action jobs is that lightening the trigger pull almost always involves replacing or cutting the mainspring.

So, here is where we get into physics. Firing a primer takes a certain amount of momentum. Momentum is velocity times mass, or speed times weight if you prefer. If the hammer is light, which it is on any small revolver, the spring has to be heavy to get higher speed to make up for lower mass.

Conversely, if you lighten the spring, you should increase the hammer mass, but that is not feasible, so the hammer may not have enough momentum to fire the primers. The result is a sweet feeling gun that you can use to click a bad guy to death if he doesn't happen to have a gun that works. The K frame guns have a heavy enough hammer that the mainspring can be reduced considerably, but the J frames are on the edge.

Another overlooked factor is that the factories build in extra power to make up for cold, grease, dirt, mud, water, etc. that might interfere with the gun functioning. An action job removes almost all that extra margin. Really, those guns should be confined to the range in the summer, but if you carry one, make sure you don't drop it in the snow or mud or it might not work.

In other words, there is no such thing as a free lunch. And the firing pin protrusion has damall to do with it. In fact, a longer firing pin may well be dangerous; if it does not retract fully into the frame, it can prevent the cylinder from turning or swinging out.

Jim

PS Excess firing pin protrusion can never cause a pierced primer; even a firing pin with 1/4" protrusion and driven by a 2 pound hammer will stop in the primer without "piercing" it. The real reason for pierced primers is a light firing pin blow, not a protruding pin or too heavy a blow.

JK
 

WVfishguy

New member
A guy I was shooting with the other day mentioned his 'smith put a longer firing pin on his S&W to, I believe, compensate for a reduced spring tension.
 

LDThornton

New member
I guess I've been lucky? I've had 4 S&W's and never needed an action job on any of them. They all have felt like they already had an action job but I think that is just the way S&W builds them. I only shoot them in double action too.
 

BillCA

New member
The problem with J frames and action jobs is that lightening the trigger pull almost always involves replacing or cutting the mainspring.

Lightening the trigger pull is done by changing or modifying the rebound spring to reduce back pressure on the trigger. But the risk there is in high speed shooting of not having the trigger reset fast enough or completely.
 

Powderman

New member
Lightening the trigger pull is done by changing or modifying the rebound spring to reduce back pressure on the trigger. But the risk there is in high speed shooting of not having the trigger reset fast enough or completely.

Absolutely correct!!

Folks, here's how to save a ton of money and get a good reference book as well.

First thing, purchase a copy of Jerry Kuhnhausen's Shop Manual for the Smith and Wesson Revolvers. Learn how to PROPERLY disassemble the revolver.

Now, here's how to do your own action job.

First thing, check and clear. Fully disassemble the revolver, with the exception of the cylinder stop/bolt and cylinder latch.

Here's the important part: Do NOT, under ANY circumstances, mess with the following parts: Hammer notch, trigger shelf, sear surface (back of the trigger) or the double action fly. They do NOT need adjustment.

Clean the revolver well. Then, we will start with the cylinder.

Assemble the cylinder onto the crane. Hold it straight and spin it. If is spins freely, fine. If not, you can dress up the outer part of the crane--the bearing surface that goes inside the cylinder--with light pressure and some 600 grit. You do NOT want to grind away--a couple of turns will do. Do NOT sand, polish, or dress that back end of the open "tube"--if you do, you will induce endshake, which can really cause some bad spitting and in extreme cases cause failures to fire. Make sure you clean all grit off the parts; put them aside.

Re-install the innards of the revolver, without the hammer--only put a good coat of JB compound UNDER, and on the INSIDE surface, of the rebound slide. Make sure you hold light pressure on the parts to keep them from coming out of the frame; now, pull the trigger about 30 times. This will lap the bottom and inner contact surface of the rebound slide and the frame. Disassemble once more, and clean the parts thoroughly.

Reassemble, using some good moly grease under that rebound slide. I use Brownell's Action Lube--a little dab'll do ya. Just a bit on the following places:

Under and on the inside surface of the rebound slide, next to the frame;
Around the trigger and hammer bosses;
A little bit ON the rebound slide spring;
A good coat ON the trigger shelf, and the top cam of the rebound slide.

You need to replace that rebound slide spring, too. I use 14 lb. springs in my Smiths to smooth up that pull.

Remember to apply the Action Lube per the instructions--this means you have to clean and completely degrease the parts before the lube is applied.

You can use the stock mainspring--or, for the final touch of smoothness, get a Power Custom mainspring from Brownell's. You want the one with the rib in it.

Use ONLY full length unaltered strain screws. NEVER shorten this screw, and NEVER alter the mainspring.

Now, fully reassemble, and hand cycle. Bet you'll like it!!
 

BillCA

New member
Nice description Powderman.

I've seen 'smiths use a stone on the innards of the frame behind the rebound slide to just remove any highspots on the frame left from machining. The same smith would measure the back of the slide for flatness out of routine, but has said most are okay. He uses a nylon or silk stocking to check for burrs on the trigger/bolt interface and stones away any that are found. He uses a fiber Q-tip to inspect the hand and hand-window of burrs or edges and files or stones those too.

Using the moly grease is okay. One smith applies it with a toothpick (a little dab'll do ya) and works the springless slide by (gloved) hand after heating both frame and slide with a heat gun. Then wipes down both areas with a dry patch.

A different 'smith simply lubricates behind the rebound slide with a "miracle lube" that slicks them up fine. It's called Dexron ATF. Simple automatic transmission fluid does a fine job of lubricating and protecting the metal (ever see a corroded transmission part?) ATF on the pivot points for hammer & trigger too.
 

kle

New member
Hmm...

I do my own smithing, but it's usually just to swap out the trigger rebound spring for something lighter (13 or 14lbs), and to get the single-action trigger break in the 2.25ish- to 3.0ish- pound range by doing a light stoning job (NO DREMEL!!! I learned that the hard/expensive way) on the hammer and trigger contact points (flying in the face of Powderman's advice =). I leave the mainspring alone and at full tension for reliable strikes. I focus on the single-action trigger because I shoot a lot of Bullseye. I suppose I'd have to do something different if I did more DA shooting, though...

I only do this on my target guns; my carry gun has been left completely stock, except for the addition of a T-grip to fit my hands better.
 

Powderman

New member
kle:

You can tune that trigger to the specs you want easily, and no stone is required. Simply buy the spring calibration pak from Brownells; assorted Wolff rebound springs, all the way down to 12 lb. I have a 14 lb installed in my 686, and it took it down to 2.5 lb--just right for Bullseye shooting.
 

kle

New member
Powderman said:
...assorted Wolff rebound springs, all the way down to 12 lb...

I've tried a 12lb spring, but I found that the trigger rebound isn't as fast as I want it to be. I would find myself taking the shot, then letting up on the trigger to recover and recock, only to find that my finger would outpace the trigger, and then the trigger would slap my finger when it finally made it back to the reset point (this also happened in double-action, too).

I found a 13lb spring is just right for my purposes. I might even have 14lb springs in my guns; I've forgotten. What I do know is that the trigger barely moves when the hammer falls--it doesn't even have to over-travel all the way back to its stop point, which means that the trigger is still floating when the round goes off, therefore not applying any extra force and not throwing the sights off while the bullet is traveling out the barrel.

Now if I was shooting more double-action, I'd probably keep the factory spring and do the things proscribed in your post to smooth the pull--I'd bet Jerry Miculek would be seriously hindered by the reduced-weight spring in my target revolvers =)
 
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