Was in my LGS yesterday and the owner showed me a pair of S&W 686s. One with 6 inch barrel and another with 3 inch barrel. Both in excellent condition, but with what some consider a fault. The locking system. Is there any real differnce in the action of these firearms? Does it really detract from the asking price if one has it? Both were priced at about $800, maybe too steep anyways for a used example of any 686, but I'm sure it has some wiggle room in the price. So, the big question would be, would you buy one for the right price? Is this the right price? (I think closer to $700 max would actually be the value) What say you?
S&w 686 with lock vs pre lock
- Thread starter Robk
- Start date
Prices on all good used S&W revolvers are up a little ...and 686's were common in 2 1/2", 4", 6" and 8 3/8" ( 3" ?? - my hunch is it's a 2 1/2" )....but there were some 3" models made...
....but $ 700 - $ 750 is about right in my area ... with the 2 1/2" or 4" being more sought after in my area - than the 6" ...
... pre-lock -- post lock .../ I wouldn't buy a post lock - but I don't think there is any mechanical reason not to.
I'm assuming you realize the 686 is an L frame ....vs the model 66 which is a K frame ( or the older model 19 ) ....vs the model 27 or 627 N frames...
....but $ 700 - $ 750 is about right in my area ... with the 2 1/2" or 4" being more sought after in my area - than the 6" ...
... pre-lock -- post lock .../ I wouldn't buy a post lock - but I don't think there is any mechanical reason not to.
I'm assuming you realize the 686 is an L frame ....vs the model 66 which is a K frame ( or the older model 19 ) ....vs the model 27 or 627 N frames...
No, I would not buy either. I've no use for lock guns, or ugly guns for that matter.
Instead, I would find a nice clean pre lock 686 and buy it for well less than $800. I would then have a better looking 686 with the old style graceful frame curves around the hammer. I'd also have a 686 that held its resale value. Basically I would have a very nice revolver with everything I needed and nothing I don't.
I did exactly this at the last local gunshow two weekends ago. I got a 4" blackened stainless 686-3 for $550 OTD. Superior in build and quality to current production 686's for less money too!
Good luck with your decision! Regards 18DAI
Instead, I would find a nice clean pre lock 686 and buy it for well less than $800. I would then have a better looking 686 with the old style graceful frame curves around the hammer. I'd also have a 686 that held its resale value. Basically I would have a very nice revolver with everything I needed and nothing I don't.
I did exactly this at the last local gunshow two weekends ago. I got a 4" blackened stainless 686-3 for $550 OTD. Superior in build and quality to current production 686's for less money too!
Good luck with your decision! Regards 18DAI
Sure - If it were in good condition, reasonably priced, and had the features I want (pinned front sight, new style cylinder release, etc), I'd buy a 686 with The Lock. As I've said many times before, the newer guns may not have the fit and finish of the older guns, but they generally shoot as well or better. In the end, then, it depends on whether you and your needs lean more toward form or function.
Having stated my opinion - about post lock guns.../ I'm just not a big fan of them ....
but .....it is interesting on his DVD about trigger jobs on S&W revolvers - renown expert Jerry Miculek - makes the point that, in general, today's S&W revolvers are built with tighter tolerances and better parts than the guns were years ago ....and have less issues on timing, etc.
I respect his opinion ...and I doubt he would say something he didn't believe...but I'm still not giving up my old S&W's either...
but .....it is interesting on his DVD about trigger jobs on S&W revolvers - renown expert Jerry Miculek - makes the point that, in general, today's S&W revolvers are built with tighter tolerances and better parts than the guns were years ago ....and have less issues on timing, etc.
I respect his opinion ...and I doubt he would say something he didn't believe...but I'm still not giving up my old S&W's either...
First off, $800 is IMHO way too high for a used 686 lock or not. I can buy a brand new 686 locally for $700-750 and unless a gun is a particularly rare or collectable variation (which a 686 is not) I refuse to pay a higher price for a used gun than a new one.
Secondly, the lock makes no difference in the actual functioning of the gun. I have personally owned S&W revolvers made in the 1970's (M28-2 and M36 no-dash), 1980's (M66-2), and 2000's (M21-4 and 629-6) and I can't tell a bit of difference between them in terms of accuracy, reliability, or smoothness of the action.
Inevitably, someone is liable to come along and tell you that the lock will engage itself and get you killed when you need to use the gun; such is not the case. The actual number of S&W revolvers that can be verified to have malfunctioned because of the lock is so small that it's statistically insignificant. Of the few revolvers that have had problems, the problems typically manifest themselves very early on and do not repeat themselves once the gun has taken a trip back to Springfield. The design of the lock is such that the recoil arc forces the lock "flag" down and out of engagement leading me to beleive that the few verifiable cases of lock-induced malfunction are attributable to QC rather than design issues.
When you get right down to it, the vast majority of people who dislike the lock feel the way they do because of asthetics, traditionalism, or politics (the lock was introduced shortly after the infamous "Agreement of 2000" between the former owners of S&W and the Clinton Administration). If someone dislikes lock-equipped guns for these reasons, that's fine; a person may like or dislike whatever he or she sees fit for whatever reason he or she sees fit. Unfortunately, some of these people have stooped to using childish invectives like "Safety Wesson", "Smith & Clinton", or "Wind-up Guns". Even worse, some of these people attempt to blow the very few documented lock-incuced malfunctions completely out of proportion through clever uses of internet fora in order to justify their own preferences (that this "tempest in a teapot" drives the price of pre-lock guns up is also a convenient coincidence methinks).
Basically, if you don't like a lock-equipped gun because of looks, traditionalism, or politics then there is no reason to buy one. There are indeed a great many pre-lock 686's out there (though they may be selling for a premium now). However, if you are primarily interested in the function of the revolver, then I see no reason to pay a premium for a pre-lock gun when a post-lock example will do the exact same thing.
Secondly, the lock makes no difference in the actual functioning of the gun. I have personally owned S&W revolvers made in the 1970's (M28-2 and M36 no-dash), 1980's (M66-2), and 2000's (M21-4 and 629-6) and I can't tell a bit of difference between them in terms of accuracy, reliability, or smoothness of the action.
Inevitably, someone is liable to come along and tell you that the lock will engage itself and get you killed when you need to use the gun; such is not the case. The actual number of S&W revolvers that can be verified to have malfunctioned because of the lock is so small that it's statistically insignificant. Of the few revolvers that have had problems, the problems typically manifest themselves very early on and do not repeat themselves once the gun has taken a trip back to Springfield. The design of the lock is such that the recoil arc forces the lock "flag" down and out of engagement leading me to beleive that the few verifiable cases of lock-induced malfunction are attributable to QC rather than design issues.
When you get right down to it, the vast majority of people who dislike the lock feel the way they do because of asthetics, traditionalism, or politics (the lock was introduced shortly after the infamous "Agreement of 2000" between the former owners of S&W and the Clinton Administration). If someone dislikes lock-equipped guns for these reasons, that's fine; a person may like or dislike whatever he or she sees fit for whatever reason he or she sees fit. Unfortunately, some of these people have stooped to using childish invectives like "Safety Wesson", "Smith & Clinton", or "Wind-up Guns". Even worse, some of these people attempt to blow the very few documented lock-incuced malfunctions completely out of proportion through clever uses of internet fora in order to justify their own preferences (that this "tempest in a teapot" drives the price of pre-lock guns up is also a convenient coincidence methinks).
Basically, if you don't like a lock-equipped gun because of looks, traditionalism, or politics then there is no reason to buy one. There are indeed a great many pre-lock 686's out there (though they may be selling for a premium now). However, if you are primarily interested in the function of the revolver, then I see no reason to pay a premium for a pre-lock gun when a post-lock example will do the exact same thing.
Kreyzhorse
New member
The lock shouldn't have any effect on the action of the gun first off. No lock versions seems to have a bit higher price simply because most people prefer the no lock version. I've got both locked and non locked S&Ws. While I prefer the non lock guns, I have no complaints about my locked S&Ws other than the lock itself.
excelerater
Moderator
Find a 686 pre lock for around 500 all day longat pawn shops
Deaf Smith
New member
Sadly I found a 686-3, tight, very good condition. 4 inch barrel.
But they want $600!
Now it was good gun, but that is durn near AR-15 prices.
I got a 686-3, 2 1/2 barrel for $525, so why would I pay $600!
But yes they are good revolvers. I do prefer the lower dash ones.
Deaf
But they want $600!
Now it was good gun, but that is durn near AR-15 prices.
I got a 686-3, 2 1/2 barrel for $525, so why would I pay $600!
But yes they are good revolvers. I do prefer the lower dash ones.
Deaf
secret_agent_man
Moderator
If one ever starts to lock up on you like it did me, you'll be another knowing but statistically insignificant person saying the lock can get you killed.
Any number of things could possibly cause a S&W revolver to malfunction. A broken firing pin, backed-out primer, or even dirt under the extractor star can prevent the gun from firing. The lock has no greater chance of tying up your revolver than any other of a number of potential problems.
carguychris
New member
To address the price question, a used M686 had better be in near-perfect unfired condition, WITH the original box, to command >$750. Most used M686s sell in the $500-$700 range in my area, but some areas are higher and some are lower.
It's also unusual for the different barrel lenghts to sell for the same amount. In my experience, here's a ranking of the different M686 barrel length values:
5" & 3" > 2-1/2" > 8-3/8" > 4" & 6"
5" guns are valuable due to their rarity. 3" guns are sought after because they're concealable and have a full-length ejector rod rather than the "stubby" rod on the 2-1/2" guns. Older 3" and 2-1/2" guns are relatively uncommon because they predated "shall-issue" CCW laws, so they mostly sold to LE buyers when they debuted. 8-3/8" guns are heavy and awkward but also relatively rare. 4" and 6" are the most common lengths, with 4" being easier to carry and 6" easier to shoot well.
It's also unusual for the different barrel lenghts to sell for the same amount. In my experience, here's a ranking of the different M686 barrel length values:
5" & 3" > 2-1/2" > 8-3/8" > 4" & 6"
5" guns are valuable due to their rarity. 3" guns are sought after because they're concealable and have a full-length ejector rod rather than the "stubby" rod on the 2-1/2" guns. Older 3" and 2-1/2" guns are relatively uncommon because they predated "shall-issue" CCW laws, so they mostly sold to LE buyers when they debuted. 8-3/8" guns are heavy and awkward but also relatively rare. 4" and 6" are the most common lengths, with 4" being easier to carry and 6" easier to shoot well.
If your patience and look there are good deals out there on pre-lock 686s. I picked up this shooters grade 686-2 4 inch for $470 out the door even in California. Took me awhile to find it but it was worth it. I would not pay the price your LGS wants for one.
Regards,
Howard
Regards,
Howard
Credit for the drastically increasing price of pre lock S&W revolvers rests squarely with the current company calling itself Smith & Wesson. The continued production of cheaply made, poor quality junk, sold at scalpers prices, is whats driving up the prices of pre lock S&W's made prior to 2001.
Astute consumers come on gunboards seeking ALL OPINIONS on a gun they are contemplating the purchase of. NOT just the opinions of stockholders and, or, brand loyal fanboys of a particular manufacturer.
I am quite pleased that my large collection of pre lock S&W revolvers is increasing in value so quickly. Better than buying stock......well....better than buying S&W stock anyway. Thanks Safety-Wesson!! Regards 18DAI
Astute consumers come on gunboards seeking ALL OPINIONS on a gun they are contemplating the purchase of. NOT just the opinions of stockholders and, or, brand loyal fanboys of a particular manufacturer.
I am quite pleased that my large collection of pre lock S&W revolvers is increasing in value so quickly. Better than buying stock......well....better than buying S&W stock anyway.
Thanks Safety-Wesson!! Regards 18DAIcarguychris
New member
One other thing I forgot to mention...
S&W introduced the "Plus" model with a 7-shot cylinder in the mid 1990s. 2-3 years later, they introduced the floating firing pin and MIM lockwork; 2-3 years after that, "The Lock".
Consequently, most no-lock M686's with the traditional forged lockwork and hammer-mounted firing pin are 6-shot, and conversely, most 7-shot M686s are "post-lock". The few M686s that combine the earlier lockwork with the 7-shot cylinder are uncommon and generally sell for a premium.
IMHO the only disadvantage of the 7-shot cylinder is that a Safariland push-style speedloader is not available. There is no loss of strength, and some experts argue that the 7-shot guns have smoother DA trigger pulls because the cylinder doesn't have to move as far to index the next chamber.
S&W introduced the "Plus" model with a 7-shot cylinder in the mid 1990s. 2-3 years later, they introduced the floating firing pin and MIM lockwork; 2-3 years after that, "The Lock".
Consequently, most no-lock M686's with the traditional forged lockwork and hammer-mounted firing pin are 6-shot, and conversely, most 7-shot M686s are "post-lock". The few M686s that combine the earlier lockwork with the 7-shot cylinder are uncommon and generally sell for a premium.
IMHO the only disadvantage of the 7-shot cylinder is that a Safariland push-style speedloader is not available. There is no loss of strength, and some experts argue that the 7-shot guns have smoother DA trigger pulls because the cylinder doesn't have to move as far to index the next chamber.
Zhillsauditor
New member
What advantage does a pre-lock have over a post lock that has had it's locking lever removed? It's pretty simple to do.
I have a 6" 686+ that I got with box & docs for $500, which seems to be the going rate around here. 4" and 3" go for a bit more. I could not be more pleased with it.
I have a 6" 686+ that I got with box & docs for $500, which seems to be the going rate around here. 4" and 3" go for a bit more. I could not be more pleased with it.
Calle my LGS today to make sure my info was right. One of the 686s is already gone. The remaining one is a 3" Talo edition NIB. Model is 686-6. It is selling not for the mentioned $800, but actually $699. Most notiable feature of this particular one is it's rounded wood grips. Very nice and a pleasure to hold. Forgot to ask if it was a 686+. I guess that will change the thinking about my LGS. It is new and at $699, well even for a post lock, it's a good price.
Now I may be considering it
Now I may be considering it